Posts by EasyPrompt

65

In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

by EasyPrompt in

still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

do they have to be jws?

EasyPrompt

"most people"

"they stop making sense"

"proper hermeneutical review of the scripture"

@AnonyMous, I don't care what anybody thinks. I'm not looking for "followers". If something I share doesn't make sense to you, I feel bad for you, but that doesn't change the truth. I also don't care about Hermen and his nautical review, 😂😉😁whoever he is. I don't care what the WTBT$ publishes or doesn't publish. I care about truth and what God reveals by means of His holy spirit. Jesus said the truth would be withheld from those who approach the scriptures solely intellectually. He said he would reveal the truth of the scriptures to those who humble their heart and view God like a little child views a faithful, kind, loyal and trustworthy daddy. A little child asks their daddy for help when they don't understand something, and God, the Best Father, already told us He is willing to answer that request for understanding when we keep asking Him and don't give up.

"So, according to the scripture, if you take the number literally, only 144,000 will ‘survive’ a great tribulation."

That's not true. Here is what God's Word says...

Revelation 7:4,9,10

"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel...After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.""

It says right there "a great crowd which no man was able to number" makes it through. If they were the same as the 144,000, then it wouldn't say "which no man was able to number". There are clearly two groups referred to in this passage: one has a number (144,000), one is unnumbered by man. It's not complicated.

"It also undermines the whole premise that post-tribulation in the WTBTS version of paradise there will no longer be any sin since only the 144,000 have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb."

What are you talking about? That there will still be sin during the 1000 year reign is made evident by Revelation 20:7-10, where it is clear some at that time sin against God badly enough to merit death. "Washing robes in the blood of the Lamb" is not a once and done thing. If a person chooses to follow Christ now, they have to keep following him.

Jude 5

"Although you are fully aware of all of this, I want to remind you that Jehovah, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those not showing faith."

65

In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

by EasyPrompt in

still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

do they have to be jws?

EasyPrompt

AnonyMous said: "Let’s take the text literal then, 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. So they have to be Jews? If you say they are literal..."

I didn't say Revelation is all understood literally, @Anony Mous. Here is what I said...

EasyPrompt said: "Parts of Revelation are figurative and parts are literal. The context and the holy spirit and the rest of the Bible make clear whether a phrase is figurative or literal."

Here are some scriptures that explain who the "Jews" in Revelation are...

Romans 2:28,29

"For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people."

Paul was talking to Christians in Rome. He called them "Jews". They were figurative Jews, not literal Jews.

When talking to the Christians in Galatia, Paul said the following...

"But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." (Galatians 4:26)

Again, he was speaking figuratively. Jesus said God could raise up children of Abraham from the stones if He wanted to. Here is something else Jesus said to the apostles who would be among the first ones anointed for the specific purpose of being kings/priests in the kingdom...

Luke 22:28-30

"However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel."

Jesus is the one who gave the vision of Revelation to John. When Jesus was talking about "judging the 12 tribes of Israel" he was talking about figurative Israel. Figurative Israel is all who decide to "wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb".

The name "Israel" means "Contender With God". Those who become Christians need to keep contending for the blessing. All Christians are figurative "Israel" in context in Revelation 7:4...

"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel..."

The 144,000 are a literal number of Christians, a representative sample of all Christians.

65

In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

by EasyPrompt in

still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

do they have to be jws?

EasyPrompt

Still, you hold onto false teachings of the WTBTS which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.
As pointed out, the rest of the book of Revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal. The WTBTS currently says that this number is limited to those running the WTBTS and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.
By what reasoning (not from WTBTS origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of Revelation. Do they have to be JWs? Do they have to be Christians?

Okay, I'll take these one at a time...

"Still, you hold onto false teachings of the WTBTS which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs."

I was disfellowshipped for not worshipping the "chiefs", so I don't know where you got that from.

"As pointed out, the rest of the book of Revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal."

Parts of Revelation are figurative and parts are literal. The context and the holy spirit and the rest of the Bible make clear whether a phrase is figurative or literal. There was a literal number of priests/Levites in ancient Israel to substitute for the firstborn of all the tribes. They were counted. The Bible records those numbers.

In one part of Revelation, after talking about the literal 144,000, there are others spoken of, a group "no man was able to number" who also become Christians, as is clear in that they figuratively "wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb". The Bible shows there are two groups in context: one can be numbered, one cannot be numbered by man. In another part of Revelation, it says that the 144,000 come out of all faithful ones. Again, that is a numbered group coming out of a group that is not numbered by man. The context makes clear that 144,000 is a literal number.

The purpose of having kings/priests is to minister to others. It's to serve others. It's not to serve those who are unfaithful or less faithful. It's to serve those who are chosen by God to live forever. It's just an assignment, just like Levi's tribe was assigned to work in the tabernacle/temple, and it wasn't because he was more special (if anything, he was the biggest loser - seriously, he was violent and rude and took part in selling his brother Joseph. But eventually he was sorry about it. If God can forgive Levi, he can forgive anybody who's sorry.)

"The WTBTS currently says that this number is limited to those running the WTBTS and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill."

Well, then, why would you think that I agree with them on that? Obviously I don't agree with them on that.🙄If anyone is mentally diseased, it's them for making such a statement.

"By what reasoning (not from WTBTS origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of Revelation."

I never said I believed that only 144,000 people will be saved. I don't believe only 144,000 people will be saved. You make a lot of wrong assumptions. If you read some of the other comments I've made on different threads, you'll see that I believe what the Bible clearly shows - that all faithful ones will see and interact with both God and Christ on an individual basis, because nothing is impossible with God, and He is not limited by our imaginations (or by the imagination of the WTBT$😝).

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6534081228046336/revelation-stuff-request-petrw

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4797299037831168/sounding-trumpet?page=3

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/122739/luke-23-43-nwt?page=2#/5398189314670592

Joseph interpreted Pharoah's dreams because Joseph relied on holy spirit. Jehovah let Joseph understand that that seven cows meant seven years and the seven heads of wheat meant seven years. The years were literal and the wheat/cows were figurative. Jehovah let Daniel understand Nebuchadnezzar's dream, that the tree was figurative and the years were literal. Revelation is done in "dreams" or "visions". Some of the things are figurative and some are literal. It is only by means of God's holy spirit that we can understand them.

"Do they have to be JWs? Do they have to be Christians?"

Peter wasn't a JW was he? When he was "anointed", Peter was a Jew. (They weren't called "Christians" yet.) How about Cornelius? He wasn't even baptized when he was anointed with holy spirit.

Obviously, God can choose whoever He wants from wherever He wants. The Bible says He choses some from every tribe, tongue, people and nation. I believe what the Bible clearly teaches.

26

Greenlees, Chapman and Chitty

by Libby in

so after being rudely awakened by a cat fight outside (it's 3am here in the uk) and then proceeding to go outside to rescue my cats from the neighbourhood tom....... i'm now laying wide awake trying to make sense of jw "truth".

(it's all my mind does these days, the lights gone on and won't turn off).

anyway i found myself reading about the gb and came across these fellows , greenlees, chapman and chitty.

EasyPrompt

@AnonyMous, I do not hold on to "WTBT$ teachings". I hold onto Bible teachings. If the WTBT$ happens to teach something that is harmony with the Bible, I hold to it. If the WTBT$ teaches something that is not in harmony with the Bible, I do not hold to it. The WTBT$ teaches that there is no after-death burning of living people in hellfire, and I agree that the Bible does not teach about that kind of hellfire doctrine.

Your assessment of me and my beliefs is not accurate. You made a lot of incorrect assumptions and asked a lot of questions. So as not to take too much of a tangent here, I will start another thread to address them.

I would think it would be abundantly clear to you by my posts here and on other threads that I do not worship men and I have no intention of worshipping men, so I have no clue where you got that "chiefs" thing, but I will address that in the other thread. See you there if you're interested.🙂

35

Are Elders prepared to take the fall for WT/GB misdemeanor's / crime ??

by smiddy3 in

i have been thinking about this in relation to the directive given to elders to destroy any incriminating evidence they may have either on their pc`s ,e-mails , private notes in their possession, or notes in their witnessing bags ,etc.

to do with child sexual abuse they may still have in their possession.. isn`t that encouraging the elders to interfere with the justice system ?.

to break the law?.

EasyPrompt

Hi again, @drearyweather...

I know you were concerned that the video with Shawn Bartlett might not be verifiable. If you are unsure if Shawn Bartlett is really a brother who is involved with records, you can hear both Mark Sanderson and John Ekrann on this excerpt from a talk regarding accounting...(John Ekrann mentions Shawn Bartlett by name and his department in the final few minutes of this clip which was originally leaked by "Warwick PIMO" earlier this week.)

https://youtu.be/6BG7qGWCMp0

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

EasyPrompt

Visit the SIAC website for more information: https://www.shunningisacrime.org

(Just took the survey 🫶)

81

Acts 15:29 - "keep abstaining from blood"

by aqwsed12345 in

for a christian, only the moral commandments of the old testament are binding (as they cannot change), but the various liturgical, social, and other so-called casuistic laws no longer apply to them.

this includes dietary habits, such as the prohibition of pork or fat, as well as the prohibition of blood.. take a look at the following verses: mt 15:11, mk 7:15-19, acts 11:7-9, 1 tim 4:3-5.. the jehovah's witnesses say that, yes, but in the acts of the apostles (15) the consumption of blood, idol meat, and strangled animals is also prohibited, meaning the new testament still forbids it.

for catholics, the council of florence settled this issue, stating that this apostolic regulation was only a temporary measure to facilitate agreement between jews and gentiles in the early church.

EasyPrompt

"I almost get the impression you believe the meaning is entirely subjective, in which case, there would be nothing to discuss."

It is completely subjective, TD. Understanding the Bible is subject to Jehovah's understanding, Jehovah's viewpoint, Jehovah's holy spirit.

If I want to understand a verse, I don't ask a scholar. I don't research on a website. I ask Jehovah.

"Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you; for everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking, it will be opened."

"There he found some disciples and said to them: “Did you receive holy spirit when you became believers?” They replied to him: “Why, we have never heard that there is a holy spirit.""

"At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son except the Father; neither does anyone fully know the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him."

"Moreover, if you call out for understanding

And raise your voice for discernment;

If you keep seeking for it as for silver,

And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasures;

Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah,

And you will find the knowledge of God.

For Jehovah himself gives wisdom;

From his mouth come knowledge and discernment."

"Therefore, subject yourselves to God..."

It is entirely subjective.😊

81

Acts 15:29 - "keep abstaining from blood"

by aqwsed12345 in

for a christian, only the moral commandments of the old testament are binding (as they cannot change), but the various liturgical, social, and other so-called casuistic laws no longer apply to them.

this includes dietary habits, such as the prohibition of pork or fat, as well as the prohibition of blood.. take a look at the following verses: mt 15:11, mk 7:15-19, acts 11:7-9, 1 tim 4:3-5.. the jehovah's witnesses say that, yes, but in the acts of the apostles (15) the consumption of blood, idol meat, and strangled animals is also prohibited, meaning the new testament still forbids it.

for catholics, the council of florence settled this issue, stating that this apostolic regulation was only a temporary measure to facilitate agreement between jews and gentiles in the early church.

EasyPrompt

@TD, I bet you must hate the Pidgin Bible translation...

Acts 15:20

"Instead, make we write to dem, con tell dem sey make dem komot hand from food wey pipo give to idols, from anyhow-sex, or di meat of animals wey dem choke, and from blood."

https://pidginbible.com/2022/06/18/acts-chapter-15/

Or how about this one...

"...but instead, make wi rite leta go give dem sey, make dem nor chop food wey dem sakrifice give juju and make dem nor sleep with who dem nor marry, animal wey dem kill and di blood nor tosh groun, make dem nor chop or drink en blood."

https://www.bible.com/bible/2516/ACT.15.PCM

😂

(I ain't as concerned 'bout grammar as I am about substance.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJr9SSJKkII

Jehovah's personality hasn't changed. Since the beginning, He has made clear how He feels about blood and those who disrespect it, whether that disrespect is shown by those who murder others (as in Cain's case) or by those who show a lack of concern for safety (as in the one who fails to put a parapet around the roof) or by those who fail to protect the sheep. "I will ask back their blood."

Blood is sacred. It doesn't matter whether you "say it" with proper grammar or not. The message is the same.

"Abstain from blood."

26

Greenlees, Chapman and Chitty

by Libby in

so after being rudely awakened by a cat fight outside (it's 3am here in the uk) and then proceeding to go outside to rescue my cats from the neighbourhood tom....... i'm now laying wide awake trying to make sense of jw "truth".

(it's all my mind does these days, the lights gone on and won't turn off).

anyway i found myself reading about the gb and came across these fellows , greenlees, chapman and chitty.

EasyPrompt

Haha! 😆

I am not "bonkers", as you will realize when Jehovah tears down the WTBT$ shortly.

Acts 26:25

"But Paul said: “I am not going out of my mind, Your Excellency Festus, but I am speaking words of truth and of a sound mind.""

Take a look ahead, @stanlivedeath - the WTBT$ is about to fall because of all the Greenlees/Chapman/Chitty types (and all the false doctrines). Jehovah's made an accounting with them. That org will be cut off while it's still alive, that everyone may know they were not representing Jehovah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9LJRvMJu60

33

JW Elder Sentenced for CSA

by EasyPrompt in

https://www.westernmassnews.com/2023/09/01/jehovah-witness-elder-sentenced-jail-child-sexual-abuse-case/?outputtype=amp.

.

EasyPrompt

Ewwwwww!!!😝

Isn't it interesting that in the recently leaked elder "training" video, the morally upright elder was deleted from being an elder for wanting his kids to be educated, but then the Service Department wants to appoint elders who have a record of rape and sodomy?

"By their fruits you will recognize them."