OHappyDay

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Posts by OHappyDay

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  17

  Do the WT authors consider the early church fathers to have been apostates?

  by True North in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do the wt authors consider the early church fathers to have been apostates?

  i seem to have a vague recollection that they do.

  however, they don't seem to have a problem reading and selectively quoting or citing from their writings which would then be the writings of apostates.

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  OHappyDay

  They use those writings just like they use writings of modern-day theologians, when those writings appear to agree with some facet of Watchtower doctrine. But they do not consider such persons, ancient or modern, to be "true" Christians. Usually they are referred to as "nominal" or "professed" Christians.
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  24

  Comments You Will Not Hear at the 4-4-04 WT Study (Dates vary this week)

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  comments you will not hear at the 4-4-04 (varying) wt study

  review comments will be in black and parentheses ().

  wt quotes will be in red and quotes "".

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  OHappyDay

  A sister at our WT study today told of her encounter with an "apostate." One of her co-workers approached her upon seeing her with a copy of the Draw Close to Jehovah book and said that he had once been a Witness. In fact, he said, he had been an elder for many years and his wife had been a pioneer for many also.

  Makes you wonder why those held up as examples (elders, pioneers) leave.

  It is so sad that it is not "Satan" who discourages and weakens Witnesses today. It is the Organization, with its mantra that whatever we do is never enough, that is guilty of promoting the "lie that we are worthless in God's eyes." (paragraph 17) This idea that Jehovah is only provisionally satisfied with us, but unless we do more, more, more, all that we have done already is meaningless, worthless.

  Tomorrow, we will gather to remember that Jesus died for us. But if we want to get into that new world, what Jesus did is not enough. We just have to keep on pushin' and work out our own salvation, Watchtower-style.
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  20

  Gilgamesh mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls

  by Leolaia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in prior posts, i discussed how older ane material from canaanite and sumerian/akkadian tradition can survive quite late.

  in 1 enoch, for example, we see how a famed rephaim from canaanite epic poetry, the wise judge danel (cf.

  ktu 1.17-19), mentioned in ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3, was recast as a fallen angel in 1 enoch 6:7, 69:2 (see [1] for discussion), and how the stories of enoch's journey to the ends of the earth and into the underworld mimic that from the epic of gilgamesh (cf.

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  OHappyDay

  Well, our view is that the Bible stories are the purer original that was distorted by retelling in other cultures over time. I don't know which is correct. I wasn't living back then.

  I don't have a shred of evidence to prove it, but I've often wondered if the Garden of Eden story with Adam and Eve being the first humans is really the story of the first ancestors of the Semitic peoples. Abraham sprang from "Ur of the Chaldees" and that is also close to the site of the Garden of Eden. Science presumes an origin for humanity somewhere in Africa, not the Middle East. So maybe the "first humans" in the Bible story were only the first ancestors of Semitic memeory.

  Or not.
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  21

  New BOE Letter Arrives

  by Farkel in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this is a typed copy of a new boe letter i recently received from one of my sources: .

  dear brothers, .

  you will soon make several changes to our current literature arrangement.

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  OHappyDay

  Yeah, it was a good effort. Really, we don't need all these magazines anyway. Probably could consolidate the WT and Awake in one monthly mag, and let the people who want them pay for them by monthly subscription. At least in developed countries. Probably give 'em away in the poorer nations.

  But that would free up a lot of paper, a lot of man-hours, and let the Bethelites do something more useful.
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  20

  Are JWs Are A "Free" People As They Claim???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the argument witnesses make is that they are not encumbered by the world and its so-called "freedom".

  they feel they are "free" from all the typical problems of this "worldly system of things"........if you could reason with a witness as to whether or not they are truly "free'', what would you say to help them see the light?

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  OHappyDay

  That's the real problem, not being able to say what one really believes from reading the Bible, if it disagrees even a little bit from "official" teaching.

  Having to believe even speculation to be truth, without deviation. "Accepting the entire range of WT teachings," even the speculations based on faulty logic and missing evidence.

  We're not free to do anything except as Brooklyn dictates, unless we wish to be smeared as malcontents, murmurers, "independent thinkers," slackers, spiritually weak, low-hour publishers, unappreciative, etc., etc.

  Really, the organization just makes hypocrites of those who really want to serve God, but haven't found any better place to go.
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  21

  New BOE Letter Arrives

  by Farkel in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this is a typed copy of a new boe letter i recently received from one of my sources: .

  dear brothers, .

  you will soon make several changes to our current literature arrangement.

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  OHappyDay

  April Fool!!!

  Real BOE letters are never signed "The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses."

  They also contain address and phone number.
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  32

  JW's hold Caucus on Sex Abuse

  by DevonMcBride in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,115410,00.html

  jehovah's witnesses hold caucus on sex abuse

  saturday, march 27, 2004

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  OHappyDay

  There was an attempt to discuss the news article on a "loyal" Witness website that was quickly shut down. Even though millions of other people who read newspapers could talk about it, "loyal" Witnesses could not!

  More hiding of heads in the sand. More refusing to look at our problems. More imposed silence.

  Isn't that what got us in this mess in the first place???
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  38

  Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-21-04 WT Study

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  comments you will not hear at the 3-21-04 wt study

  review comments will be in black and parentheses ().

  1 corinthians 7:29 (nwt) moreover, this i say, brothers, the time left is reduced.

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  OHappyDay

  I come here because when I study the WT now, I find myself arguing with it more than studying it. Some things just don't make sense.

  I followed the Society's suggestion last year and read the whole Bible through from Genesis to Revelation. Rather than convincing me that the Society is right, I became more and more aware of ways in which we deviate from what the Bible says. That is quite disturbing.

  I came from "the world" many years ago and nothing there compels me to return. But the "spiritual paradise" isn't looking so great either.

  Why can't we Witnesses just accept the Bible for what it says, if we claim to be Christians? Organization-worship is getting on my nerves. One Trinity (Jehovah-Jesus-the Organization) is no better than the other (Father, Son, Holy Ghost).
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  41

  Comments You Won't Hear at the 3-28-04 WT Study

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  comments you will not hear at the 03-28-04 wt study

  review comments will be in black and parentheses ().

  wt quotes will be in red and quotes "".

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  OHappyDay

  Blondie, your research is incomparable!

  As I indicated in the thread I started while awaiting your excellent post ("Beware the Pornographic WT Study"), I thought this WT study lesson was unncessarily graphic in places, given the audiences at our meetings.

  And I continue to wonder about the emphasis of late on masturbation, something the Bible does not mention at all. Surely it was known from ancient times. Maybe it is a problem at Bethel?

  Once not broad enough in its definition of porneia, I think the Society has overdone it in the other direction, wanting to make everything sexual without marriage "porneia." Though the word originally was tied to houses of prostitution, words change over time in all languages. Defining it in relation to what may occur in a "house of prostitution" (Where? Among the Greeks? Among the Jews? Among the Romans?) is just too elastic.
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  20

  The king of eternity and the eternal house

  by Leolaia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in jeremiah 10:10, yahweh bears two titles that are placed in parallelism: mlk 'wlm "eternal king" and hw'-'lhym chyym "the living god".

  in canaanite literature, 'llm or olam is an epithet that the aged father god el specifically bears, in addition to ab-shanem "father of years," elyon "most high", shaddai "mountain-dweller," and others.

  however the rephaim, the dead ancestor kings in the netherworld, may also lay claim to 'llm in their kingship.

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  OHappyDay

  I'm really not interested in the comparative religion thing. Too many holes in it, in my opinion. But I wonder if in your researches in ANE literature or archaeology has turned up anything in answer to what I am interested in: the derivation, meaning, and correct pronunciation of YHWH in the Hebrew Bible?

  You use "Yahweh," yet you must surely know that "Yahweh" is but a scholarly conjecture. Does anything more concrete exist, from your research?

  Thanks.