@Apognophos
true, I remember that scripture about faith being dead without works, but then is also goes to align with the other question that I have that the bible is never straightforward. So why can't it be simple and straighforward which brings me to my next comment.
@NeverKnew
I hear you. In fact the context drives me mad, why foes it need to be one at all?...according to the bible, god first gave the 10 comandments, and those were the things people had to do to be his people. Theeeeeeen the little rules and regulations came, first was a trickle then became a full flow of them. Then Jesus came and said all of that is out of the window you have to do what I say as my followers. Again he started with simple things, like love one an other, believe/have faith in me. Theeeeen boom boom boom all sorts of rules from those who came after Jesus like Paul, John etc...do or don't do this. I don't know, to me is seriously mental to be like that.
@transhuman68
I'm with you. Doesn't make sense to me it never did. And isn't because I don't have faith, in general I have faith, just I don't have the biblical type faith for things that don't make sense. Let's imagine this: I live on the 18th floor of a building. If someone came to me and said he has faith that he can step on the edge of the terrace and walk across to the next building walking on air. I would think he's crazy and call an ambulance. The only faith I would have is that the man would fall 18 storeys below and die or at very least hurt himself real bad. So why instead we believe/have faith on something written centuries ago that also often doesn't make sense?
@Vanderhoven7
Thanks for the poem, I love poetry :)
Works prove the faith is genuine to man, not god. Right. Therefore works are not necessary. Ultimately faith at least to me, is having strong belief in something. What you say is that if one believes the works will naturally happen because of his beliefs.
I have faith/believe in medicine, but doesn't mean I've become a doctor though. I have faith/believe that eating raw food is actually better for the human body, but I eat cooked food. The fact I don't become or strictly do something doesn't weaken my belief. Nor I feel that because I believe in something I have to get up and do works about it to show other men what I believe.
Based on your reasoning is like saying if one believes something...the works are almost a natural result. But how can we measure someone's faith on something and say his/her faith is stronger than someone else's just because one person do works and the other don't?
It's impossible. And Jesus himself said if I recall well, when the old widow gave her 2 worthless coins but that to her they were all she had, he said she gave more than everyone else. So to say: we as men cannot and should never judge another human beliefs, because it may not look like it someone doesn't do anything but they have more faith/believe than someone who does a lot.
Which brings me to the next point like you said works are to prove only to men that we have faith. As a born-in JW, I was very active up until my 19 year when I left my home country. If someone knew me then they would think I was one faithful young sister. My "works" were spot on. A lot and I mean a lot of people were gobsmacked when I left the organization. Turns out I never believed in it. So where does put my works of faith?
They were exactly works done to prove things to men. So works: 10 Faith/believe in what I was doing? Zero.
Since I left. Works ...at least according to the bible (or JW) are zero. Faith: 10.
So which one is better? Neither? Does it matter? Personally I don't think it does because what I believe now isn't anything to do with bible, traditional god, being sinners etc.