Posts by Pterist

27

Great Crowd & Earth Questions

by turtleturtle in

revelation 20:7-9.

7now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, satan will be let loose out of his prison,8and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, gog and magog, to gather them together for the war.

the number of these is as the sand of the sea.9and they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.

Pterist

AGuest *** There is a great tribulation which has never occurred before nor will occur again . While it had some fulfilllment between 60-70 C.E. (what happened to the Jews as a result of their rebellion while under Roman rule), that tribulation was actually surpassed by what occurred in the early 20th century - the Jewish Holocaust. While both of these events were horrors... neither are the one that "will never occur again." That is yet in the future***

Thanks for sharing some great details of the glorious hope that is in store for those who accept God's gift of eternal life, that is available now in his dear Son.

I may have misunderstood you, but are you saying that for the last 2000 years, Christ has been on his throne in heaven alone, and only after a future greatest tribulation of all time that things will begin to happen ?

27

Great Crowd & Earth Questions

by turtleturtle in

revelation 20:7-9.

7now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, satan will be let loose out of his prison,8and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, gog and magog, to gather them together for the war.

the number of these is as the sand of the sea.9and they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.

Pterist

Turtleturtle *** I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.... who are the ones that come out of the tribulation. what is the proof that they are not physical persons that were actually IN the tribulation.****

Londo111 answered the first part of your question. As a former JW, I now no longer accept the WBTS 2520-607 as correct end time eschatology. End time eschatology should NOT be a condition for salvation as there have been many views by great Christians over the past 2000 years. Personally. Amillennialism/Partial Preterism is more credible to me.

Your second question is based on Revelation 7, which is a recurring theme in chaper 14. The big picture is that out of a LIMITED number ( 144k ) selected from 12 tribes of Israel we then get a GREAT CROWD from ALL tribes, nations and kingdoms.

The nation of Israel was to be a light to the Gentiles. They were to bring a global paradise to the world. All blessings were to come from them.

These symbolic 144k spiritual Israel were the first century Christian congregation that were martyred, tortured, thrown to the lions, burned as torches under Roman powers. they were scattered and fragmented. Christ promised, THAT generation would not pass away until the all things occurred for judgement on Israel, and his presence to capture his own to himself. Out of that great tribulation came blessings to the great crowd of all nations ....rev 14:6 6 Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7 He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

I believe we are still living in this spiritual millinium of Christ, Right between Revelation 20:1-6, where we have a New order in the heavens and spiritual blessings here on earth, through the gift of living water from Christ and his kingdom. We only await for this millinium to end, with the final result of mortality been transfer to immortality. The ultimate New Heavens and New Earth and whatever resurrected bodies are suitable for that environment.

Shalom

38

SHOCK ! (1) You are Not Justified (2) Jehovah is Not Your Father (3) Jesus is Not Your Mediator

by Perry in

that's the bottom line to watchtower theology and the watchtower has admitted as much.

unfortunately, the average jw is clueless as to his actual position before jehovah.. the below is written for active jw's.

if people understand all this, and they want to remain jw's that's fine with me.

Pterist

Here is an honest reply from a seasoned JW on a forum that shows how they are robbed of the benefits of the Christ's ransom sacrifice..

Question I asked her/him, do you have the gift of righteousness and the forgiveness of sin in your life ?

Answer: Personally I have not attained justification. I am a member of those spoken of in the scriptures, as the “great crowd,” who survive the “great tribulation,” are are not yet declared righteous for life.

This made me so sad for this person, the organisation has robbed them of this gift from Jehovah that changes the heart.

Shalom

529

Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos in

i agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.

i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.

therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.

Pterist

Who was the LAST king of Judah?

There is another part of the dating from 607-1914 that seems to be overlooked. It was stressed to me as I was studying as a JW that the said calculation of 2520, were a secondary interpretation of the 7 times of madness that befell king nebuchadnezzar. It was stressed that it was also intended to point to the King with the LEGAL RIGHT to rule as these gentile times ended.

Subsequently, the WTS pick Zedekiah as the last king of Judah. and calculate the 2520 years of Gentile times from his dethronement in 607 BC

However was King Zedekiah the LAST LEGAL RECOGNISED KING ? ..

I don't believe so. Matthew chapter 1, gives the list off the royal line and at verses 11-13, shows that Jechoniah was considered the last king that was dethroned and exiled to Babylon. Also Jeremiah's letter to the exiles during Babylon's 70 year reign, states that the exiles, namely Daniels group and Jechoniah's group would be blessed and returned, however king Zedekiah who was still ruling in Jerusalem was cursed for assuming the title of king on Gods throne.

So Who was the LAST legal king in Judah ?

529

Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos in

i agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.

i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.

therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.

Pterist

JEFFRO **** then he also attacks what I say on the basis that I allegedly agree with others who state something that appears to contradict something else I've said. I will therefore point out any errors as I see them so my position is clear.***

Well it looks like we are all in safe hands with you and Ethos controlling the debate here. I'll get out the popcorn and just look on.

Shalom.

529

Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos in

i agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.

i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.

therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.

Pterist

JEFFRO ..sorry if WTS was correct 80 years, but not,....606-539= 67, 619- 539 = 80

529

Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos in

i agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.

i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.

therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.

Pterist

JEFFRO ...hold off on the friendly fire ....I'm on your side of this specific debate.

529

Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos in

i agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.

i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.

therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.

Pterist

JEFFRO *** There is no reason to believe that Daniel thought, "I'd better start praying now because Babylon was just called to account, and I've been in Babylon for 80 years*, so the 70 years must end in two more years."***

You obviously misunderstood what I said, I dont have your gift of elogence :), He realized From the only information available to him namely Jeremiah's letter* that mentioned the 70 years for Babylon, and that stage he was in Exile for almost 70 years as he was in the first deportation before Jechoniah's group that came later. So obviously if the WTS dates were used he would have been there all most 90 years. 606-539= 67, 626-539 =87

* He only had Jeremiah's letter, the Chronicles was not ever written until around 450 BC.

529

Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos in

i agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.

i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.

therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.

Pterist

JEFFRO *** There was never any mention of 70 years of exile. Daniel****

.....I said below, 70 years for Babylon ....

but knows first hand that Jeremiah had sent a letter telling the first and second group of exiles to settle down, build houses, marry, and when the 70 years are up for Babylon

529

Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos in

i agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.

i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.

therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.

Pterist

Observation:

Daniel one of the elite, was exiled to Babylon as part of the first devasation of Jerusalem. The other devasations or DESOLATIONS later were Jechoniah's group, and the destruction of his beloved city.

Daniel uniquely covers most of Babylon's reign. In chapter 9 of his own book, he ponders as Darious the Median comes to power. He wonder how long more would it take before Jehovah would give his attention to his people. He did not open the Hebrew scriptures and say, ok let me see what 2 Chronicles, (the Chronicles would NOT be written until a lot later, with the hind-sight that the temple was down for 70 years 587/586-517/516) has to say about this, but knows first hand that Jeremiah had sent a letter telling the first and second group of exiles to settle down, build houses, marry, and when the 70 years are up for Babylon he will restore them, they have his blessing, but he will curse Jedekiah and will destroy his temple.

This is the information that was available to Daniel, since he was now in exile almost 70 years (NOT 90), he prayed......

Shalom