Sunchild

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Posts by Sunchild

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  290

  The Global Flood

  by coldfish in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

  my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

  he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

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  Sunchild

  Holy Moses, this thread's still alive?! It's amazing how much nothing can be accomplished in so many pages.

  Oh, and before I forget again, HAPPY NEW YEAR, EVERYONE!!!! ::throws confetti::
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  83

  To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey gang,.

  this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.

  i enter with an informed but open mind.

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  Sunchild

  Here's a bit of irony for you. I'm as much a Christian believer as you're ever going to meet, and only a year-and-a-half ago, I felt a lot like you. For that reason, the only honest response I can give you is this: I don't think it's really possible for a human being to convince another human being of God's existence. For me, it took an event so profound that I had no other choice but to explore the path laid before me; it was the right time and circumstance for God to make His presence known.

  I became a Christian because when I was very, very close to committing suicide, I felt something urging me to pray to a God I no longer believed in. I gave in to it since I had nothing else to lose and no other way out other than death. In the moment that I did, life became worth living again. Given my mental state beforehand, this was nothing less than a miracle. Call it what you will, but I chose to call it that, and I'm glad I did.

  Since I don't know what your life is like (and I'm not the Almightly, either), I can't tell you what it would take to make you believer. Maybe it's just not in the cards for you; maybe you're still waiting, or God is.

  Whatever happens, though, good luck.

  ~Rochelle.
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  61

  Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

  i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

  i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

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  Sunchild

  Narkissos,

  I enjoyed reading your story on your website. Even though we have walked very different ways I do appreciate your open mind and your earnest endeavour to make sense of all significant experiences in your life, without rejecting any of them or squeezing yourself into any orthodox pattern. Reminds me of Paul Tillich's title The Courage to Be (fascinating book btw).

  Thank you kindly. That's such a lovely compliment that I can't say much which wouldn't sound foolish in response. Still, I think I was born on the fringe, so there's really not much purpose in my trying to be normal. *g*

  I've never heard of that book, though. I may have to check it out sometime.

  Peace to you,

  ~Rochelle.
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  61

  Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

  i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

  i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

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  Sunchild

  Pole,

  There's no need for me to do this homework. And thank you for proving my point so swiftly. You do take some early Christian texts with a pinch of salt. I have never said I have any problem with that.

  It actually took me awhile to figure out what you were trying to say, since that's not quite what I was trying to get across. The point I was making was that, really, it doesn't matter since Paul wasn't God, and a person whose faith in God is strong will rely on Him to help them sort things out. Of course, this wouldn't mean very much to someone who doesn't believe God exists.

  Actually, the above exchange illustrates my "different sports, different rules" analogy very well. What I meant by it was that believers and non-believers play by very different rules which are often incompatible. This makes it kind of pointless for Christians to try to "prove" their faith in an atheistic context (or vice versa) since each group tends to interpret the world in very different ways. I also think that Christian attempts to prove their faith in terms of science is often a betrayal of that faith because it tends to marginalize the value of spiritual experience, as if said experience is somehow not as good as what you see and touch. It's not less; it's just different.

  Bur if you want to talk about Paul's letters, weren't they addressed to people who were already Christians? People for whom (with some exceptions) his words were accepted facts, not "proof" of some idea which was beyond their ken? If I remember right, what prompted some of those letters was a handful of people in the congregation who had introduced some rather... "interesting" teachings, and Paul was trying to keep order among the believers. It's not much different from when my pastor gives a sermon. There aren't a lot of people sitting in the pews who really need convincing.

  ~Rochelle.
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  61

  Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

  i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

  i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

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  Sunchild

  I think the writer clearly imlpies that faith is dependent on some facts such as the resurrection of Christ and that it is futile to believe in Christ if resurrection was not a fact. Isn't that apologetics? Isn't Paul (?) discrediting those varieties of Christian faith which didn't recognize Christ's resurrection? And don't modern christians have to take some of the crucial Christian texts with a pinch of salt to avoid being apologetic?

  Is Paul Jesus? Is Paul God? Does Paul respond to my prayers? Did Paul send the Holy Spirit? Please talk to me again when you can prove that all of the above are answered in the affirmative.

  Trying to play lacrosse under the rules of synchronized swimming will never, ever work. Neither will trying to process faith and spirituality using only the rules of the physical world.

  ~Rochelle.
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  61

  Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

  i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

  i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

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  Sunchild

  This has always been funny to me. I've heard ones on this forum claim the bible has no value in itself, is not infallable, and that there are obvious flaws. These ones claim it's the person of Jesus that's important and that reflecting his life is what a christian should strive for.......yet these same ones claim the bible and it's savior should not be scrutinized.

  Well, if you're looking for me to tell you that the Bible has no value, you're not going to get that from me. I think it IS a revelation of God, albeit one that was penned by human beings, and as such, it contains a wealth of spiritual treasures... as well as a bit of human dirt. *g* Prayer and the Holy Spirit help me figure out how different things apply in my life.

  Nor will I tell you not to scrutinize the Bible or Christ. I do the same -- in my own way, and through my own experience. Your experiences have been different from mine, so you've reached a different conclusion. And that's all right with me.

  Peace to you,

  ~Rochelle.
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  61

  Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

  i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

  i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

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  Sunchild

  Hi, Fleur.

  I'm curious, was there any particular thing that caused you to make that change? One event that converted you or was it something of a slow metamorphosis?

  It was one event, actually. I wrote about it here:

  My Story

  My Christian testimony is in the first link. The second link is taken from an old Livejournal entry on how I ended up incorporating certain elements of Wicca and magic (with or without a "k") with my Christian practice. Unorthodox, perhaps, but it works for me.

  ~Rochelle.
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  61

  Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

  i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

  i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

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  Sunchild

  Sabrina,

  Beautiful words and beautiful feelings. Thank you so much, Rochelle.

  Thank you kindly. Just doing my job.

  ~Rochelle.
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  75

  I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian

  by Zep in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.

  this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.

  the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.

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  Sunchild

  Zep,

  Yeah, i get this one. This is good. I was just kiddin' around with the orgies stuff too BTW.

  I was hoping you were, but you'd be surprised at how often people aren't joking when they say things like that.

  In any case, take care.

  ~Rochelle.
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  61

  Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

  i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

  i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

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• 

  Sunchild

  Pole,

  The Christian faith is nearly 2000 years old. If you consider the NT books then you'll find that most (if not all) early varieties of the Christian faith were fundamentally based on apologetics. Either implicitly or explicitly.

  Interesting. I can't speak for the original poster, but the examples you've posted are somewhat different from what I think of when I think of Christian apologetics. Miracles, prophecies, etc.... Even those had to be accepted on faith by people who weren't eyewitnesses to them, and I never saw anyone (especially not Jesus) arguing ad nauseum with unbelievers. The believers just presented the facts as they knew them and left the rest up to their audience.

  When I think of apologetics, I think of how I've seen people INSIST on the scientific merits of the Bible or some other non-issue, and subsequently argue said issue right into the ground well after it becomes obvious that neither side is listening to the other. I've never seen that accomplish anything productive. Entertaining, maybe, but not productive.

  ~Rochelle.