stocwach

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Posts by stocwach

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  6

  WT Quote that Abraham & co. have earthly hope?

  by stocwach in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am trying to prove a point to a jw, and i was wondering if anyone has a specific passage from any of the publications where they specifically reference faithful men of old such as abraham, isaac, and jacob as having an earthly hope, vs. a heavenly one?.

  thanks in advance!

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  stocwach

  Thanks everyone!
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  WT Quote that Abraham & co. have earthly hope?

  by stocwach in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am looking for a specific example in any wt publications where the society unequivocally believes faithful men of old have an earthly hope, an not a heavenly one.. thanks in advance!

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  stocwach

  I am looking for a specific example in any WT publications where the Society unequivocally believes faithful men of old have an earthly hope, an not a heavenly one.

  Thanks in advance!
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  6

  WT Quote that Abraham & co. have earthly hope?

  by stocwach in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am trying to prove a point to a jw, and i was wondering if anyone has a specific passage from any of the publications where they specifically reference faithful men of old such as abraham, isaac, and jacob as having an earthly hope, vs. a heavenly one?.

  thanks in advance!

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  stocwach

  I am trying to prove a point to a JW, and I was wondering if anyone has a specific passage from any of the publications where they specifically reference faithful men of old such as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as having an earthly hope, vs. a heavenly one?

  Thanks in advance!
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  10

  Has anyone read "30 Years a WT Slave"?

  by stocwach in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was written in 1971 by william j. schnell, born in 1905 and was a dub from 1924-1954, holding many high positions within the org.

  from bethel to direct one on one meetings with rutherford.. interesting slant that i never really considered as a plausible possibility, but now it has me wondering:.

  the main theme of his book is that the society's main ulterior motive was to basically become a financial empire by selling books and publications.

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  stocwach

  After reading my post, I need to clarify the point about not choosing the easy out of "freedom of the press" vs. "freedom of religion".

  By choosing the latter, the JWs deliberately extended their persecution considerably longer than would have been if they pleaded freedom of the press.

  In this way they were able to remain in the spotlight much longer for the general public to take notice, giving the appearance that they were martyrs for a good cause.
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  10

  Has anyone read "30 Years a WT Slave"?

  by stocwach in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was written in 1971 by william j. schnell, born in 1905 and was a dub from 1924-1954, holding many high positions within the org.

  from bethel to direct one on one meetings with rutherford.. interesting slant that i never really considered as a plausible possibility, but now it has me wondering:.

  the main theme of his book is that the society's main ulterior motive was to basically become a financial empire by selling books and publications.

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  stocwach

  It was written in 1971 by William J. Schnell, born in 1905 and was a dub from 1924-1954, holding many high positions within the org. from Bethel to direct one on one meetings with Rutherford.

  Interesting slant that I never really considered as a plausible possibility, but now it has me wondering:

  The main theme of his book is that the Society's main ulterior motive was to basically become a financial empire by selling books and publications. He speaks of constant meetings with charts, graphs, and goals, etc.--much like what you would expect in a big business sales meeting.

  To create a sense of urgency in the mind of the person shelling out the dough, the "end of the world" idea was keyed upon as the sole message, when in reality according to the author the insiders knew this was just a brilliant way to get the contributions to keep coming.
  In the meantime, while everyone was encouraged to not put their money into anything worldly, because the end was near, the Society was busy shelling out big bucks for their future expansion. No one however really noticed the anamoly however.

  He then speaks of the time around the late 1920s/early'30s when they were unable to sell books and publications in large quantities for a contribution anymore, because the householder was beginning to question there motives, so they deliberately decided they needed to make it APPEAR that they were religious martyrs by organizing into big groups in public places and promoting literature with the INTENT of getting arrested! The main charge brought upon them basically peddling without a license, but instead of the JWs taking the easy stance of pleading freedom of the press, they deliberately chose freedom of religion, and thereby got the exact reaction out of the public, and the sympathizing unwary again began to pour in the contributions for the books and mags.

  Another interesting note was the almost animosity that occured between the 3 classes at the time that the org. had divinely revealed:

  Mordecai/Naomi Class: members of the 144K made up of older, more experienced elder types who were beginning to take notice of the questionable WT practices; Ruth/Esther class: members of the 144k made up of much younger, fresher faces that came in just as the heaven door was about to shut; and the Jonadab class, made up of the basic dregs of the organization, who were basically told that if you do everything the WT says, you MIGHT GAIN SALVATION.

  I continue to be flabbergasted as to what I am finding out about the cult I used to subject myself to.
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  26

  Creation Story Contradiction

  by JosephAlward in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the two different creation stories in genesis contradict each other in the matter of the order of the creation of man and vegetation.

  in the first story, vegetation was created on the third day, and three days later man was created.

  however, in the second creation story, there was no vegetation before man.

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  stocwach

  You know, the more I read the passage, the more absurdity reveals itself in the thinking of Joseph Alward, and Elsewhere, and any other atheistis mentality out there.

  There is absolutely no contradiction whatsoever here, and it is obvious we are talking about an event AFTER creation, NOT A CONCURRENT EVENT.
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  26

  Creation Story Contradiction

  by JosephAlward in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the two different creation stories in genesis contradict each other in the matter of the order of the creation of man and vegetation.

  in the first story, vegetation was created on the third day, and three days later man was created.

  however, in the second creation story, there was no vegetation before man.

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  stocwach

  Gweedo,

  How do you get the impression that "land" in vs. 9 refers to everything exclusively? It simply is used in context as a name for "dry ground".

  It does not change the fact that "land" can be used to reference a geographic area.
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  3

  Surgeon takes care due to blood restriction?

  by stocwach in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm wondering if a portion (the part in brackets)of the following respone i got from a dub re: the controversial blood policy sounds eerily familiar to anyone else, like it does me?

  i mean, i could swear i saw a post by someone not long ago almost verbatim, which if i could find the post would make it appear to be kinda like a canned "theocratic warfare" defense line or something:.

  "1) what are your thoughts on the blood issues i brought up in my earlier email?

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  stocwach

  I'm wondering if a portion (THE PART IN BRACKETS)of the following respone I got from a dub re: the controversial blood policy sounds eerily familiar to anyone else, like it does me? I mean, I could swear I saw a post by someone not long ago almost verbatim, which if I could find the post would make it appear to be kinda like a canned "theocratic warfare" defense line or something:

  "1) What are your thoughts on the blood issues I brought up in my earlier email? Do you agree that it is quite controversial and contradictory?
  I ACTUALLY HAVEN'T READ THEM, VERY BUSY, AUX PIONEERING THIS MONTH, MY NIECE IS GETTING MARRIED, EVERYONE IS SO BUSY. BUT, I DON'T NEED TO READ IT. THE BIBLE SAYS TO ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD, SO I DO. EVEN THE WORLD IS TRYING TO ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD NOW BECAUSE OF ITS PROBLEMS THAT CAN COME WITH IT. PEOPLE MAKE WAY TO MUCH DEAL OUT OF THE BLOOD ISSUE. VERY RARELY DOES SOMEONE DIE FROM NOT HAVING BLOOD. [[[[[I HAD SURGERY, AND WAS VERY CLEAR TO MY DOCTOR THAT I WOULD NOT ACCEPT BLOOD, AND MADE SURE HE WAS VERY CLEAR ON IT. YOU KNOW WHAT HE DID? HE TOOK A 2 HOUR SURGERY, AND MADE IT A 4 HOUR SURGERY, AND CLOSED UP AS HE WENT ALONG INSTEAD OF WAITING UNTIL THE END TO CLOSE UP ALL OF IT. MY HE TOLD ME I LOST VERY LITTLE BLOOD BECAUSE HE DID IT THIS WAY FOR ME. IN THE END, I HAD VERY LITTLE PAIN, AND MY SCARS WERE THE BEST HE HAD EVER SEEN, AND HE ATTRIBUTED IT TO THE FACT THAT HE TOOK HIS TIME BECAUSE OF THE BLOOD ISSUE. MY FRIEND HAD THE SAME EXACT SURGERY, SAME DOCTOR, BUT DIDN'T TELL HIM SHE WAS A WITNESS, SHE HAD THE WORST PAIN OF HER LIFE, AND HAD TO HAVE OTHER SURGERIES TO REPAIR SCARS.]]]]] ANYWAYS, THIS IS JUST A SIDE POINT. REGARDLESS, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IF I SAID NO BLOOD ON SIMON, THE COURTS WOULD JUST TAKE OVER AND DO IT ANYWAYS. SO I GUESS WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? I WOULD STILL BE FURIOUS, AND PURSUE LEGAL ACTION, BUT WHAT IS EVERYONE IN SUCH AN UPROAR ABOUT. IT IS OUR BODY. EVERYONE WANTS TO LET WOMEN MAKE THEIR OWN DECISION ABOUT THEIR BODIES AND ABORTION, WHY DO THEY HAVE SUCH A FIT ABOUT THE DECISION WE MAKE? "
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  8

  Help please! Looking for a WT quote--

  by stocwach in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i came across a website that included the oct. 1, 1994 wt, p. 6, as a reference for the society basically saying that reading the bible is not enough to understand scripture.

  the website did not give a direct quote however.

  i was wondering if anyone has a link to this specific wt passage?.

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  stocwach

  I came across a website that included the Oct. 1, 1994 WT, p. 6, as a reference for the Society basically saying that reading the Bible is not enough to understand Scripture. The website did not give a direct quote however. I was wondering if anyone has a link to this specific WT passage?

  (I have a JW friend who claims the theory that the Society frowns upon reading the Bible alone is a fallacy, and that Bethelites are encouraged to read the Bible in its entirety the first year...blah blah blah)

  Thanks in advance!
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  140

  Just As In the Days of Noah

  by Farkel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  since the bible makes it clear that jesus believed in the scriptural account of the flood and since the evidence that a worldwide flood as described in that same scriptural account would have been virtually impossible, why should anyone trust jesus to be man's redeemer and the only begotten son of god?.

  farkel

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  stocwach

  Faithful Jah says:

  It seems to me that you (Joseph Alward) want to argue against anything and everything in the Bible, and against anything any Bible believer has to say. By doing so you sometimes end up looking less than brillant.

  LOL. Right on the nail. Check this out for confirmation of this point:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=23607&site=3

  Joseph: How come you never answer anybody when someone asks you a legitimate question on your motivation for your never ending and relentless questioning of the Bible and God? Surely all your "means" must point to some "end"? I think everyone would love to know what the "end" is.