by stocwach 6 Replies latest jw friends
I am trying to prove a point to a JW, and I was wondering if anyone has a specific passage from any of the publications where they specifically reference faithful men of old such as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as having an earthly hope, vs. a heavenly one?
Thanks in advance!
no referances from books, but I recall it was explained like this:
All person that lived up to Jesus death would have earthly ressurection and those after his ressurection would be either annointed and of the 144,000 or of the great crowd which means life on earth.
That is why they called Abe Is. & Jacob, princes blah, blah, blah.
THis is old light New light my have appeared after I left. You know what I mean...flip flop.
Hell is truth seen too late. H.G.Adams
The first time the WT decided that Abraham would go to heaven - as far as I know.
The booklet “Millions Now Living Will Never Die” written in 1920 stated under the heading “Earthly Rulers:”
“As we heretofore stated, the great jubilee is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the Kingdom shall be recognised. The Apostle Paul in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews names a long list of faithful men who died before the crucifixion of the Lord and before the bringing of the selection of the church. These can never be a part of the heavenly class; they had no heavenly hopes; but God has in store something good for them. They are to be resurrected as perfect men and constitute the princes or rulers of the earth according to his promise (Psalm 45:16; Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 8: 11) therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews chapter eleven, the condition of human perfection.” (Pages 88 & 89)
The Society had decided that the Bible’s faithful men of old including Abraham would not go to heaven. They had reserved this hope for themselves. Not only were they going to heaven but also they were to be Kings and Priests with Jesus.
Members around the world spread the word and eagerly looked forward to Armageddon and the return of the faithful men of old. As late as 1924 the Society maintained the anticipation and repeated their prophecy:
“We should therefore expect shortly after 1925 to see the awakening of Able, Enoch, David, Abraham, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, John the Baptist, and others mentioned in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews.”(“The Way To Paradise” - Page 224)
Taken from the newly released book 'Opening the Door to Jehovah's Witnesses ' by Trevor Willis Available from' Amazon.co.uk (books) ISBN 0954018206
Here's a few -
WATCHTOWER 2/15/95 - THERE WILL BE A RESURRECTION OF THE RIGHTEOUS:
"The Earthly Resurrection
12 Should we think of the awakening of these faithful pre-Christian men and women in that new world as part of the resurrection of the righteous? Evidently yes, because the Bible refers to them as righteous. For example, the disciple James mentions a man and a woman of ancient times who were declared righteous. The man was Abraham, the progenitor of the Hebrew race. Regarding him we read: "'Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness,' and he came to be called 'Jehovah's friend.'" The woman was Rahab, a non-Israelite who exercised faith in Jehovah. She was "declared righteous" and came to be part of the Hebrew nation. (James 2:23-25) Thus, men and women of old who exercised strong faith in Jehovah and his promises and remained faithful to the death were declared righteous by Jehovah on the basis of their faith, and they will without doubt share in the 'resurrection of the righteous.'"
WATCHTOWER 12/15/91 - REJOICE IN THE KINGDOM HOPE
"17 If that is your hope, contemplate also the joy of sharing in restoring Paradise on the earth. (Luke 23:42, 43) No doubt the Armageddon survivors will help to clean up the earth and thus provide pleasant locations where dead ones will be resurrected. Funerals may be replaced by welcoming sessions for those brought up in the resurrection, including our own loved ones who have gone down into death. And think of the enriching fellowship with faithful men and women from past centuries. Whom do you especially want to talk to? Is it Abel, Enoch, Noah, Job, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, Rahab, Deborah, Samson, David, Elijah, Elisha, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, or John the Baptizer? Well, then, this delightsome prospect is also part of your hope. You will be able to converse with them, learn from them, and work together with them in making the entire earth a paradise."
WATCHTOWER 8/15/89 - PARADISE RESTORED GLORIFIES GOD
"12 Is Psalm 45:16 saying that those who were formerly Jesus' natural forefathers will become his sons by his resurrecting of them from the dead? Yes. Is Psalm 45:16 also saying that out of regard for his descent from them, Jesus will show them special royal favor and appoint only them to be "princes in all the earth" in its Paradise state? No. Fulfillment of the prophecy in such a way would allow for only a limited number of "princes" in all the earth. Besides that fact, not all these forefathers of his were so outstanding as to merit special prominence on earth during his Millennial Reign. The King, Jesus Christ, will have countless more than his earthly forefathers to appoint as "princes"-qualified ones of the Armageddon survivors, of the resurrected "other sheep," including the pre-Christian men of faith. From among all of these, he can appoint qualified deserving ones to hold princely office as his earthly representatives.
13 Think of such ones who are in line for resurrection under the Messianic Kingdom. Look! Can we believe our eyes? There is Abel, the first human martyr, and Enoch, who kept walking with the true God. There, too, is Noah, the ark builder. There are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, forefathers of the nation of Israel. There are Moses (of the priestly tribe of Levi) and David with whom the everlasting covenant for the Kingdom was made. And there, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and all the other Bible-writing Hebrew prophets down to the last of them, Malachi, and, of course, John the Baptizer and also Joseph, the adoptive father of Jesus.
14 On one occasion Jesus said to the Jews that they would "see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but [they themselves would be] thrown outside." (Luke 13:28) The "great crowd" of earthly survivors of "the war of the great day of God the Almighty" will be favored with the privilege of literally seeing the resurrected "Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets" back here on the Paradise earth and in royal service under the Kingdom of God by the "Eternal Father," Jesus Christ.-Revelation 7:9, 14; 16:14; Isaiah 9:6."
WATCHTOWER 10/1/83 QUESTIONS FROM READERS
"Note what Martha says about the dead Lazarus at John 11:24: "I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day." Which resurrection did she there have in mind? Why, the resurrection that Abraham, and other integrity-keeping Jews looked forward to in faith-an earthly resurrection! How, then, would Jesus' following words appeal to Martha? They would convey to her the situation with regard to the earthly resurrection."
WATCHTOWER 6/15/79 - LIVING NOW IN THAT "LAST DAY " OF RESURRECTION
"16 Although losing the physical association of the glorified remnant, the "great crowd" will be comforted by a numberless throng of new inhabitants of the paradise earth. Who are these, and from where do they come? These are other redeemed ones of mankind who will be resurrected from the land of "the last enemy," the Adamic death. (1 Cor. 15:26) What a joy it will then be for the "great crowd" to meet the resurrected Job, yes, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, John the Baptizer, ah, yes, even the young children of Bethlehem who were dispatched to the realm of the dead by their enemy, Herod the Great! What a joy also to meet known friends, the Fine Shepherd's "other sheep" who did not survive the "great tribulation" and enter directly into his 1,000-year-long reign! (Rev. 20:4, 6; John 10:16) Will the members of the anointed remnant who survive the "great tribulation" live on in the New Order to witness the beginning of the resurrection of the earthly dead on their "last day"? (John 11:24) The Scriptures do not indicate this with any certainty."
WATCHTOWER 5/15/51 - LEAVES OF HEALING
"7 Immediately after the battle of Armageddon is over and the new world is fully inaugurated, what about those people of good will who survive the battle because of having had spiritual healing? Will they be instantaneously healed of every bodily affliction and miraculously perfected? No. This would not comport with their still being in the same human bodies and still having traces of sin and evil inclinations which they inherited from Adam. They will no more be perfected in an instant after Armageddon than the faithful witnesses of ancient time, Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, etc., will be resurrected as perfect men by God's power through Christ the King. Some of the anointed remnant of Kingdom heirs will also survive Armageddon with the great crowd of "other sheep", and this remnant will not experience any perfecting in the flesh in an instant of time. They are looking for perfection, not in the flesh, but in the heavens, by a share in the first resurrection to life as spirit sons of God."
PROCLAIMERS (1993) CHAPTER 7 - ADVERTISE THE KING AND HIS KINGDOM (1919 - 1941)
""Unrealized Hopes Are Not Unique to Our Day"
"We may confidently expect," stated the booklet Millions Now Living Will Never Die, back in 1920, "that 1925 will mark the return [from the dead] of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old . . . to the condition of human perfection." Not only was the resurrection of faithful men of old expected in 1925 but some hoped that anointed Christians might receive their heavenly reward in that year."
Thanks everyone!
Whether or not Abraham had an earthly hope shouldnt matter because Luke 16 talks about him being in heaven ;)
Lizard
This is a prime example of basic JW teachings that most JWs have no clue about. I am surprised time and again when I discus something with my wife and she does not know the watchtower position on it. When I became a witness I studied voraciously. I got old watchtowers from friends and read them in school. (Not a problem because I was a straight A student anyhow, could read and still follow the teachers comments) So when I see a JW who has been active for years dispute some basic things, which are not even 'objectionable' doctrines, it floors me.
