Posts by Spiral

9

All the child abuse lawsuits are just a hiccup in the bigger picture.

one of my uncles who has never been a jw is visiting for christmas.

my dad who has stopped being an elder and has stopped going to meetings started explaining to my uncle why he finally left the watchtower religion.

my dad had tried for years to convert my uncle but never succeeded.

Spiral

@Believe, I also think your parents will be okay. I think this is a good line of reasoning being used with your parents, although I think that a) the bOrg won't have the staying power of the Catholic Church (mostly because the shunning thing will bite them back when it comes to numbers; and b) all "old time" religion is losing its hold on humanity anyway.

Interesting thing, though, if your parents really believe that a lot of JWs would commit suicide if the bOrg goes down. I personally think a lot of JWs would be [secretly] relieved if it did. But the GB has brainwashed a lot of people into thinking "there is no where else to go"..... not that you have to "go" anywhere ..... and your parents must still buy into this belief on some level.

I think things will get better with time. Especially if they start reading books like Bart Ehrman's. A real eye opener, even if you don't agree with all his conclusions.

22

Service experiences

by former2free in

jw
friends

i know what you may be thinking by the title but bear with me.

have you ever reflected on past service experiences and think wow if only i had listened to a householder?

two things come to my mind of personal experience.

Spiral

Yes, one time I had a return visit, an older lady. Took her magazines two or three times. The last time I went, she gave me the magazines back. These were magazines roasting the Catholic Church. She told me how dare I distribute such false information, and who did the WT think they were, claiming to be the only approved (also read: perfect) religion and that God did not approve of the Church. She was angry, but made a couple of logical statements that made sense to me, even then.

Turns out she was a Catholic nun, staying with family and not wearing a habit. (Who knew this could happen?)

I remember being uncomfortable at the time, and what she said to me really stuck in the back of my mind. Now that the bOrg has the same issues I think back about distributing those magazines and am embarrassed.

22

Commuter Bethelite video

by no-zombie in

for those who missed last weeks clam meeting, there was a video played that was amazing ... however not in good way.. we are all aware how thousands of full time bethelites world wide got the boot and put out onto the street.

some having giving most of their lives to the organization, but often with no real way to support themselves other than to depend on the generosity of others.

so when this video talked about how special it would be for those who could step up and become a commuter bethelite, it made me think how calculating the governing body must be.

Spiral

Anyone who has worked in the "real world" in the last decade is very familiar with this scenario. In my profession, a lot of people got laid off in '08. Then, we all gradually got "hired" back (not really) as freelancers, paying our own taxes, health insurance, 401K, etc. The downturn was a great opportunity to save money in the long term for a lot of companies. Woohoo!

What surprises me is that there appears to be (from what I hear) a lot of commuters, doing this for WT for free. Of course, they get a lot of positive feedback from their fellow JWs, but really, you would think they'd figure out after awhile that they are just being used.

43

Did Ray Franz Help You To Get Out of “The Truth”?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i sneakily read his books at work.

it was written in such a way that no one could accuse him of being another bitter old apostate.. once it registered in my brain, especially after reading the second book, i knew i had to get out!.

Spiral

No, but had I known about his book while I was still in, it certainly would have helped get me out. Reading CofC later just provided confirmation that I had made the right decision.

58

Explain Your Avatar

by new boy in

jw
friends

i know this thread has been done before.

however maybe some of the new comers might like to know.. my avatar is the cover of my first novel "your crazy life.

".

Spiral

Mine is one of many versions of a spiral symbol that have been around since early history, present in many cultures. This particular one is a Celtic version. The GB would probably think it was pagan, hence the attraction.

58

Be Honest in All Things - New video exposes a problem with honesty at Bethel/Construction

by George One Time in

on tv.jw.org kenneth cook jr. discusses how important it is to be honest when applying for special assignemts.

he mentions health and viewing pornography.

those who viewed pornography during the last year should not apply.

Spiral

I can't imagine any JW applying for any sort of "special" duty answering this question honestly (it's an actual question on the form?). You certainly wouldn't admit to viewing porn and then turn in the application. If you didn't follow through after asking to apply (if that's how it works), that would be suspicious to a lot of intrusive elders.

So, it's one of those dysfunctional things that just goes on and on. I just can't believe how they focus on this kind of stuff.

34

For those who are athest, or non-christian, how did you come to this decision?

by Tameria2001 in

i'm not asking this question to cause an argument or accuse, but i am honestly just wondering?

for those of you who are now atheist or non-christian, how did you come to this decision?

i hadn't given this much thought until about a year ago.

Spiral

Once I gave up (or couldn't rationalize) a belief in Jehovah, I gave up believing in any sort of God. So, perhaps at heart, I always was an atheist, I just didn't realize it.

As a child, I used to wonder: If God is so wonderful, why does he make it so hard to serve him? He is, among other things, a terrible communicator. And he must really like to watch people suffer. There's no way that the "preaching work" can ever reach everyone on the earth, there are so many people born every year, many in places where the JWs (or any other church) can't preach, that there would never be an end to it all. That made me think that if God does exist, he's not really a very nice person. From that point of view, it's an easy transition to full on atheism.

It was a great relief to let all that god-belief go!

All that doesn't mean I don't believe in being ethical and living life to a higher standard. It just means I'm not looking to an outside "god related" source to tell me what to do.

30

There is something I don't understand about the selling off of Kingdom Halls

by Tameria2001 in

i have been reading where the watchtower is closing down kingdom halls.

there is something that i don't understand, or maybe i am just misunderstanding it.

can someone clear this up for me?

Spiral

Tameria, I apologize, I didn't mean to say that you or others were dumb. A lot of people don't understand how property ownership works, or what the consequences of holding title means. You might learn about this kind of thing at school, at work, or by having the income and opportunity to buy and sell property and see how it works.

What I meant was, many people in the congregation don't have the kind of experience, training, or education that would give them this knowledge or life experience. They just trust that the GB and the elders have their best interests in mind. And if you don't even know what the right questions are to ask, it's easy to be taken advantage of.

30

There is something I don't understand about the selling off of Kingdom Halls

by Tameria2001 in

i have been reading where the watchtower is closing down kingdom halls.

there is something that i don't understand, or maybe i am just misunderstanding it.

can someone clear this up for me?

Spiral

Tameria, a lot of the JWs don't understand that if title to the KH is held legally by the WT Society (as it often is), it doesn't matter how much time, effort and money you've donated. Legally whoever holds title calls the shots and gets the proceeds when the property is sold. If the WT holds title and the congregation is making payments indefinitely (not linked to a note or mortgage that can be paid off) it's really just perpetually leased property. No end of payment in sight.

And, again, if the JWs were more educated, they would understand this.

35

I Saw An Elder Yesterday Who Told Me 3 Area Kingdom Halls Were Being Dissolved

by minimus in

jw
friends

he said they read the letter to the congregation and were told the kh would be disbanded.

2 other halls in the area were slated for closure.

he said many people in the congregation began crying.

Spiral

I know of a case like this from 5 years ago. The congregations shrank because the distance and traffic made it too hard to attend the meeting (especially during the week). The bOrg leadership didn't really seem to care.