All the child abuse lawsuits are just a hiccup in the bigger picture.

by I believe in overlapping 9 Replies latest jw experiences

  • I believe in overlapping
    I believe in overlapping

    One of my uncles who has never been a JW is visiting for Christmas. My dad who has stopped being an elder and has stopped going to meetings started explaining to my uncle why he finally left the Watchtower religion. My dad had tried for years to convert my uncle but never succeeded.

    My uncle was surprised that his older brother who many times warned his younger brother that Armageddon was close and if he didn’t act, would be destroyed for not choosing Jehovah. Now my dad was eating crow.

    Both dad and mom told my uncle all the stories on the news regarding the sexual child abuse cover-ups in Australia and the lawsuits in the U.S.A. Both dad and mom got real emotional as they told story after story to my uncle. My mom even started crying.

    I was laying on the floor watching the whole thing and I could tell that my uncle couldn’t understand why my parents were all disturbed. So he asked them why they were so upset about the whole thing.

    My parents went on to explain that all their close friends refuse to see what’s happening and refuse to see that the Governing Body is not who they claim to be and that when the Watchtower comes crashing down with all the lawsuits, probably many of the friends will commit suicide.

    My uncle looked at me and kind of smiled. He then went on to tell my parents that nothing like that is going to happened. He told them that it’s just religion and it’s always been like that with organized religion from the very beginning when Christianity started to form in Rome and probably before that. He explained to them that the Watchtower is just another religion with the same problems other religions have always faced—sexual abuse of children. Religion a pedophile paradise.

    He told them, “Let me give you an example. So my uncle googled news on his phone for about 5 minutes and found this;

    Then he told my parents to read the story and my parents read it. After reading it my parents starting saying how disgusting it was and blah, blah, blah.

    My uncle told them these stories happen all the time. And then he asked them; "you know what happens?"


    You still have 1.2 Billion Catholics who will continue with the religion. And the Catholic Church will pay the fines-and life will go on.

    The same with the Watchtower. They got caught, they will fight tooth and nail to escape punishment, and when they lose, they will pay the fines and continue to take monies from the faithful to pay those fines. And life will continue just like it has for thousands of years.

    All these lawsuits the Watchtower has to fight-is just a hiccup. In time the members will just deal with the regularity of the lawsuits just like the Catholic Church and life will go on for the faithful.

    I kind of feel bad for my parents; they are having a hard time dealing with the whole thing. They still think Jehovah is going to execute the Watchtower because it has gone apostate.

    I’m not getting involved either, they need to work it out on their own. I know it’s just going to take some time. But my uncle is doing a good job of explaining things to them and giving them a lot of reading material that will help them see how all religion, (including the Watchtower) is just a big racket to pull monies from the members. Some of the books he recommended include Bart Ehrman. So I think eventually my parents will be OK.

  • nowwhat?

    Facinating story and perspective

  • Xanthippe

    Interesting, I will say that the difference is the WTS does not have 1.2 billion members nor anywhere near the wealth of the Catholic Church to pay for many, many lawsuits. Has your uncle been to the Vatican?

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    Yes the Vatican is very rich, it is an independent state after all and has been accumulating wealth and power for sixteen hundred years. The JW org is not in the same league but will have to deal with massive payouts all the same. The Boy Scout movement I read somewhere is facing bankruptcy as a consequence of their child abuse claims.

    Even without these court cases the JW org has had a significant drop in income. Two possible reasons; firstly the public in the Western World are no longer joining, just the born-ins are bullied into it, and secondly more and more JWs are withholding contributions because they are part of the growing band of PIMOs or reckon they are not getting their money's worth from the org. And quite right too!

  • Spiral

    @Believe, I also think your parents will be okay. I think this is a good line of reasoning being used with your parents, although I think that a) the bOrg won't have the staying power of the Catholic Church (mostly because the shunning thing will bite them back when it comes to numbers; and b) all "old time" religion is losing its hold on humanity anyway.

    Interesting thing, though, if your parents really believe that a lot of JWs would commit suicide if the bOrg goes down. I personally think a lot of JWs would be [secretly] relieved if it did. But the GB has brainwashed a lot of people into thinking "there is no where else to go"..... not that you have to "go" anywhere ..... and your parents must still buy into this belief on some level.

    I think things will get better with time. Especially if they start reading books like Bart Ehrman's. A real eye opener, even if you don't agree with all his conclusions.

  • I believe in overlapping
    I believe in overlapping
    Xanthippe Has your uncle been to the Vatican?


    My uncle really doesn’t even think of religion. It’s only because his brother is bringing it up. The reason my uncle doesn't think much of the WT scandals is because he believes the sex abuse is a human species problem- or maybe not a problem but just human nature, and not necessarily a religion problem, at least for some people. He pointed out something kind of interesting to me when I was younger and was abused by older women. To be honest I really don’t call it abuse and most kids my age don’t either.

    He told me to look at all the young women teachers who have lately been getting caught having sex with 13 year old students. There are actually tons of them the past couple of years. He told me to look at their lives. Most of them worked hard to get a degree in teaching. They spent several years going to school and have had to cough up the money to pay for the school. Just about all of them were happily married and had kids of their own. They had parents and siblings and friends who would be affected if she ever got caught having sex with a child. They also were very aware that if they got caught, more than likely they would have to spend some time in prison, probably years, and afterward register as a sex offender for life. All those years going to school to be a teacher, all the hard work, all the money spent, would go down the drain. Her only options for the rest of her life would be menial jobs which would translate into a life of poverty. Plus what man would want to marry a women who went to prison for child sex abuse.

    So what happened?

    Evidently for some persons those sex hormones escalate to such a high degree that they override the current norms of human behavior. The human desire to procreate with young healthy humans overrides any sense of self preservation. Age and law just entered the picture a few years ago according to history and that’s what is making all the scandals----into scandals.

    It also happens in all fields not just religion. For example Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby just to name a few people in the film industry. Bill Cosby was the “Jell-O” man who loved pudding. (Who would have thought!) Politicians – where do I start, from members in congress to judges all the way to the President!

    So I’ve notice that a lot of people, who’ve never been JWs or religious for that matter, never give it a second thought when news about Watchtower sex scandals comes out in the news.

    So to my uncle, it's a scandal, but not really!

  • mentalclarity

    It might be just a blipp for non jws but for jws it's different to realize their religion is not special or different. Catholics don't have that same us and them mentality. Witnesses feel like they are the chosen ones. That's why the scandals hit them especially hard. That's hard for someone on the outside to comprehend.

  • I believe in overlapping
    I believe in overlapping


    Witnesses feel like they are the chosen ones.....That's hard for someone on the outside to comprehend.

    Yes it is. Actually it's kind of amazing. I try to explain it to my girlfriend and her family and no matter how hard I try, they just tell me they don't get it. Or they say; "What the Big Deal" Very few people in general ever think to themselves as "THE CHOSEN ONES"

  • waton

    Dear "I believe in overlapping":

    good observations. To add, in some jurisdiction the newer anti-evolutionary laws show this skewed picture. In the same places, even today, you can have a 12 year old legally marrying, but a groper or gropess of a 17 year old going to prison as a child molester[ess], and on the sex offender registry. These irrational laws made by old woman and men are perhaps a backlash triggered by their lost natural appeal. Not to be misunderstood. I am for the permanent, speedy elimination of all rapists.

    The Pope by the way has just now asked catholic pedophile offenders to surrender, and reminded them they additionally will face eternal judgement. Only the Catholic clergy has stricter official moral restrictions than JWs by the way. (No sex outside marriage for JWs, and then no marriage for priests.)

    Wt abuse occurrences, condemnable as they are, fade into insignificance when seen against the numbers and severity of the rape stories, with crowbars, on 4 year olds, the Rohingya tragedies, coming out of the south east asian sub continent.

    Lets feel a little bit sorry for wt bible & tract Inc's trapped tyrants, The bible is silent on pre- and newly puberty coitus, and the sex control apparatus, elders& informers, are no match for the mighty hormonal life passing-on drive. Bsw: I believe in overlapping too, with my wife, possibly from another generation. w.

  • Diogenesister

    Yes I think mental clarity is right in the sense that your uncle is talking about religion, whereas your parents are talking about a CULT. I know many protest that all religions began as cults, as I suspect your uncle would too, but I think the only people who trully get that difference are people who have belonged in a cult.

    As to thinking we were the only chosen ones, maybe orthodox jews would get it, if they ever suddenly believed none of it was true.

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