Posts by Hendrixgrip

14

bullying

by Hendrixgrip in

jw
friends

i should preface my comments by pointing out that i have no aversion to being disfellowshipped.

i fully expect that to happen.

all of my immediate family and a great deal of my extended family have moved on with me and we all enjoy a full and satisfying life.

jp1692, thank you. My wife's answer every time I ask "how can they not see this?" is, IT'S A CULT. It's gotten to be a joke. I completely agree about replacing the relationships. I've been very fortunate in this regard, and it makes me much less vulnerable to the one bullet they have in the gun.

tiki, thank you. We've been on the path you suggest with not a hint of religious talk for 5 or so years. I'm sure she wouldn't characterize what she did as religious conversation because she didn't say 1914, or pagan or any other witness trigger words. My family has made a conscious decision to have them shut us out of their lives rather than us shut them out of ours. We are deliberately not DA'ing in order to cause as much cognitive dissonance as possible. I've had 11 people close to me follow me out or go out with me and it always began with conflict. I have to remind myself I've waited patiently for her to open the dialogue and I'm getting exactly what I want. It's just been a while and I forgot how irritating it is.

In general I wanted to memorialize my thoughts on the bullying aspect. Going forward, I think I'm going to reply to these texts with "I understand you are sharing your values with me and inviting me to the convention/memorial/the meetings because you love me. I love you too and I'd like to share my values with you. I wish you weren't going. If you would ever like to talk about it, I'd love to buy you a cup of coffee." Needs some work to get across a point and be brief, but I'll get there.

14

bullying

by Hendrixgrip in

jw
friends

i should preface my comments by pointing out that i have no aversion to being disfellowshipped.

i fully expect that to happen.

all of my immediate family and a great deal of my extended family have moved on with me and we all enjoy a full and satisfying life.

Hendrixgrip

I should preface my comments by pointing out that I have no aversion to being disfellowshipped. I fully expect that to happen. All of my immediate family and a great deal of my extended family have moved on with me and we all enjoy a full and satisfying life. That means what I'm about to say won't apply to everyone that reads this and not everyone will benefit from it.

My standard response in the past when someone texted me and said "The memorial is this week, we'd love to see you." or "We wish you were at the convention with us" has been, "Thank you for your concern, if you'd ever like to understand why I won't be there, please feel free to give me a call." Of course no one has called.

Last week, the one person remaining in the cult that I care about texted me twice. We are still very close and when she texted me she was staying in my home to attend the convention. The first text said "We miss you at the convention." I replied with something very similar to what I posted above. The second text, which I'm paraphrasing said "I see your son reads a lot and has religious books, would you mind if I talk to him about the bible?" Of course this one was different and I had a hard time controlling my temper. I took a few days to cool off, talked with my kids about it, called her back and said basically, "Feel free, but don't expect my kids to back off asking you difficult questions about your choices. I've never gone down that path with you, but if you engage my children, I won't insist that they're meek." Then I followed up by telling her that her daughter had talked to me about Jeptha's daughter over the course of the week, would she mind if I read Judges chapter 11 to her daughter, from her bible, in her presence. The conversation got very heated at that point and we politely got off the phone with each other.

That's when it hit me, they're bullies. By her saying "We wish you were here," she's sharing her beliefs and value system. What would have happened if I had replied back, "I wish you weren't." Or better yet, what if I just texted that to her without it being a reply. She gets to share her values, but when I share mine back, I'm being disrespectful. I feel just as strongly about my beliefs and values as she does. Why should this be a one way street. The answer to my own question is, they have always had the ability to control the dialogue because they have the threat of disfellowshipping. This person DOES NOT want me to get disfellowshipped. It would put her in a very bad place. I've been respectful of her choice for years, and she's been respectful of mine. I'm sure she doesn't view what she said as disrespectful, just that she loves me. This is the first time I've had clarity that my beliefs are exactly the same. I love her. She's in a dangerous place. I'm willing to not talk about it, or I'm willing to talk about it. The only thing that's off the table is being talked TO about it. She undoubtedly doesn't believe that's what she did, but I believe I can help her see that, even if she won't admit it to me.

I would appreciate any additional clarity that any of you can add to help me shape my thoughts.

23

Accept flip flop beliefs....Jehovah is the one who is driving the Celestial chariot

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the watchtower bible and tract society uses its governing body to force jehovah's witnesses to accept their flip-flop beliefs and doctrines.

their history of conflicting false teachings and practices have left members in confusion.. in this video, david splane blames jehovah god for all the changing doctrines.

"jehovah is driving the chariot.".

Hendrixgrip

It was this video(assuming this is the one that came out a few years ago) that persuaded me that they don’t actually believe it. Spain artfully interchanges the words “generation” and “contemporaries”. Contemporaries can overlap. Generations do not. But the scripture doesn’t say “this group of contemporaries”. It is a skillful, well thought out manipulation.

19

Manipulative language

by Hendrixgrip in

someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something i wanted to get off my chest.

the societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and i hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

periodically , i’ll run into someone and they’ll say “hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” i’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “i’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”.

Hendrixgrip

Thanks Giordano. We are successfully faded. Haven’t stepped inside a KH for around 4 years and pretty well left alone. I talked to my wife about my feelings for a couple of years before she joined me on the outside. I worded it poorly, but my comments were intended to help someone who might be in the position I was in during the years I was trying to help her understand.

I’m about 90% indifferent to being DF’d. All of my wife’s family and most of mine came out with us.

Having said that, I do appreciTe the reminder.

19

Manipulative language

by Hendrixgrip in

someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something i wanted to get off my chest.

the societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and i hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

periodically , i’ll run into someone and they’ll say “hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” i’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “i’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”.

Hendrixgrip

Thank you Blondie and User 99. That’s exactly what I mean. The more we educate ourselves on the methods the society uses to influence people, the more likely we will be able to help people. JW’s spend an inordinate amount of time having these phrases with subltle submeanings reinforced in their conscience. To the extent that we can help them appreciate the lunacy, it’s beneficial.

phizzy I thought more about what you said and I’d like to clarify something. Elders are not emotionally invested with us and therefore can move to DFing quickly. People that love us are less likely to immediately go down that path. My comments were intended more for those we are emotionally invested with. Having said that, I have shared those thoughts with two elders and emerged unscathed. I think I drove them crazy answering their questions with my own questions asking them to clarify their questions. Them:”Brother Hendrixgrip, do you believe the GB blah blah blah?” Me: “I’m not sure I understand your question. Are you asking me do I believe Jehovah puts his thoughts in the governing body like he did the Bible writers?” Them: “no, no, no , do you think they generally represent his will...”. Me: “again, I’m not sure I understand. Can you give me a scriptural example?” Of course they couldn’t. There is no scriptural example of a “true uninspired prophet.”

19

Manipulative language

by Hendrixgrip in

someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something i wanted to get off my chest.

the societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and i hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

periodically , i’ll run into someone and they’ll say “hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” i’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “i’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”.

Hendrixgrip

Thank you Phizzy. I agree, I’m just indifferent. My wife would like to DA and I pull us back so that I can try to make people think just a little. I’m sure it will catch up to me, but until it does I’m going to plant as many seeds as possible.

I think the reason I posted that is because I shared those feelings with my wife when she was PIMI and it seemed to make her think.

Gorbatchov, it is all double speak. How did we miss it for so long? That’s why I posted. If we still have loved ones in, pointing out the double talk can speed the process. With my family that has come out with me, I would say “We learned A last week, right? And we learned B this week, right? A and B seem to be in conflict with each other. Do you have any thoughts how I should explain this to the kids?”

19

Manipulative language

by Hendrixgrip in

someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something i wanted to get off my chest.

the societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and i hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

periodically , i’ll run into someone and they’ll say “hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” i’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “i’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”.

Hendrixgrip

Someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something I wanted to get off my chest. The societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and I hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

Periodically , i’ll Run into someone and they’ll say “Hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” I’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “I’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”. Inevitably, they’ll say something like, “you haven’t let that impact your faith in the organization/bible/GB have you?”

My response is to say, “no, faith is not the problem, it never has been. I’ve never had faith in the GB. Then I paraphrase Hebrews 11:1 and say, “Faith isn’t the problem. Faith is the assured expectations of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not yet seen. I don’t hope there’s a GB, I know there’s one. I’ve seen them, I don’t hope to see them. If you mean my confidence in the GB, then yeah, I guess I’m struggling with that.”

Faith is something that should be reserved for things we can’t see, like God or Jesus or according to them, gravity and wind. By asking JW’s to have faith in them, they’ve subliminally elevated themselves to the position of God. At best, JW’s should have confidence in the GB, like they might a politician.

25

Hello

by Hendrixgrip in

hi, this is my long overdue introduction.

i’ve been visiting this site since probably around 2011. in that time, i’ve taken a lot from these discussions and never contributed anything.

i’m not sure that i have much to contribute these days because i just don’t pay too much attention to wt land.

Hendrixgrip

The point fat freek is that as they had to lengthen their timeframe from 1874, this tunnel had to grow too. Not a mistake, a deception. I think jwfacts has a great section on this.

25

Hello

by Hendrixgrip in

hi, this is my long overdue introduction.

i’ve been visiting this site since probably around 2011. in that time, i’ve taken a lot from these discussions and never contributed anything.

i’m not sure that i have much to contribute these days because i just don’t pay too much attention to wt land.

Hendrixgrip

25

Hello

by Hendrixgrip in

hi, this is my long overdue introduction.

i’ve been visiting this site since probably around 2011. in that time, i’ve taken a lot from these discussions and never contributed anything.

i’m not sure that i have much to contribute these days because i just don’t pay too much attention to wt land.

Hendrixgrip

Fat freek, I’m having to break my posts up. Guess the pics are too large. I think jwfacts has a great section on this.