unsure

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Posts by unsure

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  56

  "There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (for the record, i’m agnostic who is earnestly seeking an objective, honest and concrete hope for something greater).

  “there is evidence of a creator if you just look for it”.

  many of us have heard similar sentences from believers regarding proof of creator, proof that their religion is the correct one, proof that their particular sect is the right one, proof that their individual sects interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one, proof that their own personal interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one; the list goes on.. in one of my previous posts, i shared the following thought of mine:.

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  unsure

  @ttdtt

  Very well said. You understand what I'm trying to say. I'll hit that like button. I would like to elect you as my official spokesperson on this subject haha. All your posts are much appreciated. Thank you.
• 
  56

  "There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (for the record, i’m agnostic who is earnestly seeking an objective, honest and concrete hope for something greater).

  “there is evidence of a creator if you just look for it”.

  many of us have heard similar sentences from believers regarding proof of creator, proof that their religion is the correct one, proof that their particular sect is the right one, proof that their individual sects interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one, proof that their own personal interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one; the list goes on.. in one of my previous posts, i shared the following thought of mine:.

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  unsure

  @waton

  There is no evidence to support what you are saying; it's all in the subjective view of Creationists. If there was, there would be no need of inumerable discussions like this.

  There is no undeniable evidence.

  Respectfully, what you are saying is just an exact rehash of what countless other Creationists have said before you and undeniably proves nothing.

  I believe it is possible that there may be something but it's not based on undeniable evidence (if I'm being intellectually honest with myself), it is based on pure faith and speculation.

  I believe you are missing the point of the OP.

  We are going in circles here and it's not constructive to keep replying to eachother so I'll stop.
• 
  56

  "There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (for the record, i’m agnostic who is earnestly seeking an objective, honest and concrete hope for something greater).

  “there is evidence of a creator if you just look for it”.

  many of us have heard similar sentences from believers regarding proof of creator, proof that their religion is the correct one, proof that their particular sect is the right one, proof that their individual sects interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one, proof that their own personal interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one; the list goes on.. in one of my previous posts, i shared the following thought of mine:.

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  unsure

  @waton

  Ignore that last question as it's not important.

  Either way, a personal God who loves and wants our salvation, should not have us "look elsewhere in the traces left in the creation process", to quote you.

  As is the point in my OP and in other posters replies, it shouldn't be this difficult if a personal God who cares exists. It should be extremely apparent.

  Again, I'm agnostic, but I hope if there is a personal God, they would not fault me for asking for undeniable evidence.

  Many who are exponentially better versed on the subject would argue that there is no evidence for a non-personal Creator either.
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  56

  "There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (for the record, i’m agnostic who is earnestly seeking an objective, honest and concrete hope for something greater).

  “there is evidence of a creator if you just look for it”.

  many of us have heard similar sentences from believers regarding proof of creator, proof that their religion is the correct one, proof that their particular sect is the right one, proof that their individual sects interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one, proof that their own personal interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one; the list goes on.. in one of my previous posts, i shared the following thought of mine:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  unsure

  @waton

  Do you believe in a non-personal, non-intervening Creator or a personal God?
• 
  56

  "There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (for the record, i’m agnostic who is earnestly seeking an objective, honest and concrete hope for something greater).

  “there is evidence of a creator if you just look for it”.

  many of us have heard similar sentences from believers regarding proof of creator, proof that their religion is the correct one, proof that their particular sect is the right one, proof that their individual sects interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one, proof that their own personal interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one; the list goes on.. in one of my previous posts, i shared the following thought of mine:.

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• 

  unsure

  @waton

  Yes it's a good article because it presents BOTH sides of the argument, that of Dawkins and that of the articles author.

  There are many more articles out there that just make the case for him being atheist.

  So confusing.

  PERSONALLY I think he is best described as agnostic as at some points he seemed undecided.

  Howevereven if Einstein was a theist, it does not prove anything.

  There are many great minds today, Stephen Hawking for example, who are atheist.

  Again, if there was a Creator who cared (which is what I'm talking about in my OP) why is their message so convoluted that we have to look towards earthly mans personal beleifs and appeal to authority. We should not have to look towards anything but the Creator communicating to us in a clear manner directly to us, not through a book or through having to dig out whole lives through a seemingly infinite amount of arguments for and against a Creator.

  If I was a father and wanted my children to listen to household rules, I would meet with them face to face and speak with them clearly and specifically within my imperfect, earthly ability, NOT write the rules in a book (these rules being convoluted and open to interpretation) and then disappear from their lives forever which it seems is what this Creator has done, and this supposedly from a perfect being. One could argue justifiably that this Creator did not disappear since they didn't even make their presence known in an undeniable way in the first place.
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  205

  Mathematically Measuring Evolution.

  by towerwatchman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mathematically measuring evolution.. when judging relationships in terms of morphological characteristics we will always be bound by the subjective.

  morphologically one cannot exactly measure the distance between two organisms strictly in mathematical terms.

  using the standard method of taxonomy we cannot quantify the difference between a horse and a mouse, or know which is closer mouse to cat, or mouse to fish.

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  unsure

  I always find it perplexing when someone who propheses to believe in Jesus is condescending towards others. They often respond pointing to others who insulted them which is why they insulted back. However, did Jesus not teach to turn the other cheek? I could never imagine Jesus being condescending towards those who argued with him.

  By behaving in that manner believers push more people away from the notion of God rather than to it by their lack of humbleness, caring and humility.
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  56

  "There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (for the record, i’m agnostic who is earnestly seeking an objective, honest and concrete hope for something greater).

  “there is evidence of a creator if you just look for it”.

  many of us have heard similar sentences from believers regarding proof of creator, proof that their religion is the correct one, proof that their particular sect is the right one, proof that their individual sects interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one, proof that their own personal interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one; the list goes on.. in one of my previous posts, i shared the following thought of mine:.

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  unsure

  @waton

  Sorry not sure what you are getting at. I said that Einstein was at most agnostic and some would say athiest. Please see the article I linked which presents some points for both sides and to this day there is much more debate from both sides who want to claim him.

  An exponentially small amount of our known universe is biological so of course I do not limit "creation" to just evolution.
  
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  17

  My Current Views About God, Relgion, JWs and Life In General

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this past year has been the most life changing year anyone could ever go through.

  waking up, leaving the cult, separating from my wife, research, research, research, reading, pondering etc.

  and i've found myself having to re-learn and re-evaluate everything i thought i knew.

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  unsure

  @pale.emperor

  Great, logical points.

  On my "hopeful" days; days when I pray to whomever may be out there to reveal themselves to me, I do so out of pure faith, not based on any concrete evidence that their is anybody out there listening. I stand to be corrected, but up until this point, there is nothing to base my hope on.

  If a god ever did communicate with humans - these 3 things would be absolutely true.
  
  

  1. It would be Indisputable. No one would doubt the message was from a deity.

  2. It would be Unambiguous. Everyone would know exactly what was being said and asked. You would not have every third person interpret it in their own way.

  3. It would be Globally Accepted.

  @ttdtt

  Great post. That is the way I feel as expressed in my thread "There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it", except your post is much more succinct then mine haha.

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5631312687792128/there-evidence-creator-if-you-just-look
  
• 
  56

  "There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (for the record, i’m agnostic who is earnestly seeking an objective, honest and concrete hope for something greater).

  “there is evidence of a creator if you just look for it”.

  many of us have heard similar sentences from believers regarding proof of creator, proof that their religion is the correct one, proof that their particular sect is the right one, proof that their individual sects interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one, proof that their own personal interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one; the list goes on.. in one of my previous posts, i shared the following thought of mine:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  unsure

  Evolution is the easy part, I firmly believe in that mechanism. the harder one is abiogenesis, the start of life, the appearance of matter, a form of energy, the laws that govern nature, the enigma of eternal time. your comment shows you have too narrow a view of creation, which is at least 4 times older than evolution's start

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  but that is exactly how Einstein thought about it, in his fruitful thought experiments, trying in a kind of mental game to pry the secrets of creation, the conversion of energy into matter, the time conundrum from the "lord" ,-- by way of dealing with the creation left behind by the creator. Albert must have felt it was set up like that: Here it is ;--use it,-- admire it, --work to find out my characteristics as expressed in my works.
  

  @waton
  

  Notice how I say "Many would say" or "those arguing for evolution would say". I am not speaking from my "too narrow view of creation" and for that matter I don't think evolutionists are either; they are very well educated and have explored both sides of the argument. I am speaking on the arguments presented by those who are exponentially more knowledgeable on the subject than I will ever be. I entertain arguments BOTH in favour of creation and against creation. To not do so would be intellectually dishonest with myself. My view of Creation is anything but narrow.

  Einstein was at most agnostic (many would say atheist)

  "According to Richard Dawkins, the gifted exponent of evolution, Einstein was an atheist: “Einstein sometimes invoked the name of God, and he is not the only atheistic scientist to do so, inviting misunderstanding by supernaturalists eager to misunderstand and claim the illustrious thinker as their own.”"

  http://www.bethinking.org/god/did-einstein-believe-in-god
  

  Instead, this deity (if it were rational) would simply create us with an innate belief in a creator deity along with a need to worship It which, coincidentally or not, is exactly the way most people are. The vast majority of human beings on this planet believe in some sort of creator God, whether they are monotheists, polytheists or animists. Atheists may have always existed too, but they have been an extremely small minority until recently.
  

  @Rainbow_Troll

  This "innate belief in a creator deity" does not prove anything if I'm being honest with myself.

  At one time most of humanity believed that the sun revolved around the earth and that the earth was flat. This did not make it true.
• 
  56

  "There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (for the record, i’m agnostic who is earnestly seeking an objective, honest and concrete hope for something greater).

  “there is evidence of a creator if you just look for it”.

  many of us have heard similar sentences from believers regarding proof of creator, proof that their religion is the correct one, proof that their particular sect is the right one, proof that their individual sects interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one, proof that their own personal interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one; the list goes on.. in one of my previous posts, i shared the following thought of mine:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  unsure

  Thanks everybody for the posts; keep them coming. If I don't respond to you directly I am still very appreciative of your contributions to this thread and will give a "like" to posts I agree with.

  this statement shows you have *consciousness* and *cognitive ability* superior to animals of like body and functions. This (cognitive ability) is an *image of a creative mind* in function. Any ideas how thoughts are formed ?
  

  Thank you for the answer but that doesn't cut it. Those arguing for evolution would say that our brains are more evolved then other creatures. As well, science is showing more and more "cognitive ability" in animals through many studies such as performing CT scans on dogs which shows "striking similarities between dogs and humans".

  https://www.wired.com/2014/02/dog-brains-vocal-processing/

  In terms of how thoughts are formed:

  "They’re really just electro-chemical reactions—but the number and complexity of these reactions make them hard to fully understand…"

  http://engineering.mit.edu/ask/what-are-thoughts-made

  In regards to "make them hard to fully understand", this does not concretely point to a creator either. It could be that the science or tools to understand the more complex points are not there yet or it is currently being studied.
  
  
  

  It is very hard to miss seeing creation, usually the sign of accomplished work, the doings of a creator, unless you believe that the universe created itself. Observe how creation works
  

  Thank you for your post, however this is your subjective view and does not cut it. Many would say evolution is an accepted fact among the scientific community and even among many believers who see the overwhelming evidence for evolution and who do not take creation stories in religious texts literally.

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  When reading the quotes above in favour of evidence for a Creator, I think "Hmmm yes that could very well be" but if I'm being honest with myself their are many completely valid and provable points that do not include the need for a Creator.

  This is what I'm referring to HONESTLY and OBJECTIVELY look at every argument for or against a Creator. I can't lie to myself.