Posts by waton

70

A Growing Problem for Materialists

by Sea Breeze in

the famous double-slit experiment proves that light travels both in individual particles called photons and also as a mathematical probability wave.

matter itself exhibits this particle-wave duality which allows objects to exist in two different places at the same time, depending on whether of not you are looking (testing) at it.

scientists have recently been able to get molecules as large as 2000 atoms to exhibit this duality!.

waton

---unplanned and unintended happenstance --MF

Only wt adherents take it upon themselves to read the mind of their god all the time.

It is a valid question. The making of the universe, our solar system, the firing up of life, our functioning brains are certainly milestones we have not been able to replicate, even satisfactorily explain.

imho the creator has the wherewithal, and could have endowed the early beginning with all the embodied information that is needed to bring these events about in time. ***. Did he take a personal hand in abiogenesis for example?

If we never succeed to copy it, would be one way to find out.

*** one theory suggests that multiple universes came into existence, many, with flawed information flow or laws failed. Our"s exist and we, because by chance all went well here. Survival of the fittest ata cosmic scale.

1

The anointed are martyrs

by Listener in

i didn't realize this watchtower teaching before but they teach that the anointed (which include the governing body die a sacrificial death.

fortunately, we have the governing body to explain that for us -watchtower 06 2/15 states.

the apostle paul later spoke of christians’ being “baptized into [christ’s] death.” (romans 6:3) the anointed live a life of sacrifice.

waton

L: thank you for pulling those quotes together. the missing link in this scenario is, that according to John 6, it is the partaking that imparts the right to restored perfect life on earth, called everlasting life. It is this destiny that the anointed sacrifice. In other words partaking is really a prerogative of the Other Sheep, it should be they that keep and not sacrifice that destiny. ( jesus fed the emblems to people with an earthly hope, not anointed bsw).

Rev 20 adds another condition to rule with Christ for a 1000 years though, To be literally sacrificed with the axe. Just declaring your death as sacrificial, better than other demises just will not do., biblically. just trading everlasting life for immortality at your last breath?

How does wt writers think that all will eventually get everlasting life, the so-called OS, without feeding them the Bread and the Wine?

The memorial is supposed to stop being held at the outset of the great Tribulation, not into the 1000 year reign. will John 6 be declared null and void?

70

A Growing Problem for Materialists

by Sea Breeze in

the famous double-slit experiment proves that light travels both in individual particles called photons and also as a mathematical probability wave.

matter itself exhibits this particle-wave duality which allows objects to exist in two different places at the same time, depending on whether of not you are looking (testing) at it.

scientists have recently been able to get molecules as large as 2000 atoms to exhibit this duality!.

waton

In one sense DNA contains information but that is nothing but a metaphor. In reality it is just chemicals doing their thing. C:

We know you like the life sciences, and DNA is a superb information carrier in it's structure. but are not all developments depending on the "structure" of their "preceding structures", so that it is the information that is passed along,survives temporarily, , while the previous carrier may not exist any more, have "passed on" in more sense then one. are not all things carriers of information, that can be extracted, not just photons, sound waves, dinosaur footprints?

is not the information there, embodied, whether it is "read" or not?

70

A Growing Problem for Materialists

by Sea Breeze in

the famous double-slit experiment proves that light travels both in individual particles called photons and also as a mathematical probability wave.

matter itself exhibits this particle-wave duality which allows objects to exist in two different places at the same time, depending on whether of not you are looking (testing) at it.

scientists have recently been able to get molecules as large as 2000 atoms to exhibit this duality!.

waton

I didn't bold anything you F..ing idiot.

Are you trying to suggest that god the grand creator of the universe guided that huge asteroid MF:

sorry, I added the bold as stated, to mark what I was referring to.

Waton: No, what I am saying, that the universe acts in such a way is so flexible, to come up with unexpected beneficial results, like fertilizing BC fishing grounds with carbon from Oregon forest fires. (food for plankton and thought.

newton was not referring in the "nudge" remark to catastrophes, but regularity.

I am imagining the "creator" as an entity so advanced, it can create out of co-eternal energy a totally self-creating universe or two, without having to tinker, or aim. It would not be farfetched to call it "father" which says it all. .

70

A Growing Problem for Materialists

by Sea Breeze in

the famous double-slit experiment proves that light travels both in individual particles called photons and also as a mathematical probability wave.

matter itself exhibits this particle-wave duality which allows objects to exist in two different places at the same time, depending on whether of not you are looking (testing) at it.

scientists have recently been able to get molecules as large as 2000 atoms to exhibit this duality!.

waton

If there comes a time when a huge asteroid comes directly to are planet creating a colossal impact and knowingly this is going kill just about every living thing on this planet, similar to how one did 40 million years ago " bold added MF.

we have information gleaned from research, that meteor, asteroid, comet impacts were shapers of life and the deliverers chemicals that sustains it. Even the event , that (contrary to Newton's belief)* "knowingly" killed the big ones, gave our forebearers the niche we needed to thrive.

* Isaac believed that god need to nudge the bodies of the solarsystem once in a while to keep their places for so long.

The "systems" in the universe are in many ways self correcting, or are destied to go out of existence. It is the existence ion the foirst place that is so remarkable.

1) communicating data to another sentient being. 2) technical, subject of information theory.) Cofty,

those are very narrow definitions. "information ' as used by us lowly laypersons to be understood in a broader, all encompassing sense, info existing, conveyed in many ways, usually seen seen in the context.

70

A Growing Problem for Materialists

by Sea Breeze in

the famous double-slit experiment proves that light travels both in individual particles called photons and also as a mathematical probability wave.

matter itself exhibits this particle-wave duality which allows objects to exist in two different places at the same time, depending on whether of not you are looking (testing) at it.

scientists have recently been able to get molecules as large as 2000 atoms to exhibit this duality!.

waton

Sea breeze is pulling an old creationist trick in positing that the universe had to come from a intelligent ---MF :

The alternative trick would be even trickier, proposing that the universe made itself, not even like a chicken makes itself from a fertilized egg, which has all the information, instructions and material to warm up with, but out of absolutely nothing.

has never been observed, why would it be true of the universe? a slightly bigger job?

24

JW's Not Members anymore but Individuals

by pistolpete in

i've been waiting for someone to post this and i've haven't seen it yet, perhaps i overlooked it since i don't visit that often.. but here is the link to the discussion.

in it you will find letters and links to this new light.

whether it's true or not, please verify.. as of .

waton

what is the latest baptism question relating to organisation membership" " do you understand -- to be part of Jehovah's 's organisation (not spirit directed any more)?

can you be a part but not a member?

70

A Growing Problem for Materialists

by Sea Breeze in

the famous double-slit experiment proves that light travels both in individual particles called photons and also as a mathematical probability wave.

matter itself exhibits this particle-wave duality which allows objects to exist in two different places at the same time, depending on whether of not you are looking (testing) at it.

scientists have recently been able to get molecules as large as 2000 atoms to exhibit this duality!.

waton

Even energy has to have an origin of its existence.MF:

This type of reasoning is akin to kicking the can down the road. because it implies the act of creating, a source that itself needs to come into existing. and so on it goes.

if we extrapolate the "known" about energy into the past, beyond the Big Bang Beginning, we can be comfortable with the assumption that time and energy are fundamental, uncreated, infinite in age,unthinkable it is t us creatures of this limited, and limiting universe.

Once information is accepted as real (albeit immaterial) SB:

Interesting point. Yes right now we need carriers, embodiments for information, but one could imagine the "truth" about 2x2,or pi, 3,14---, existing by themselves, nd potentially to appear anywhere needed.

Do you believe then, that these abstract "truth", natural laws are present even outside and before this universe, waiting for a place, matter to latch onto?

70

A Growing Problem for Materialists

by Sea Breeze in

the famous double-slit experiment proves that light travels both in individual particles called photons and also as a mathematical probability wave.

matter itself exhibits this particle-wave duality which allows objects to exist in two different places at the same time, depending on whether of not you are looking (testing) at it.

scientists have recently been able to get molecules as large as 2000 atoms to exhibit this duality!.

waton

---a position of we dont know --Even energy has to have an origin of its existence. MF:

why? what ever happened to the concept of infinity, even expressed mathematically as the sleeping 8 ?

just because we dont like it, can not picture / comprehend it, will not 'will' it out of existence.

But the Op is correct, if you are strictly limited to stick to the material, the stuff we have right now in this short - lived universe, you are on safer grounds.

70

A Growing Problem for Materialists

by Sea Breeze in

the famous double-slit experiment proves that light travels both in individual particles called photons and also as a mathematical probability wave.

matter itself exhibits this particle-wave duality which allows objects to exist in two different places at the same time, depending on whether of not you are looking (testing) at it.

scientists have recently been able to get molecules as large as 2000 atoms to exhibit this duality!.

waton

The problem with the term materialist is, that matter or material is just a particular, solid form of energy.

Energy has been proven to be not destructible, only transformable, hence is even uncreated, therefore must have existed before the Big Bang., along with time, the first or 4st dimension.

just because our instruments do not reach, or receive information from that era, or our 3-4D brains can not "picture" it, does not mean it is not factual.

The quark / quantum conundrums just shows the frontiers of knowledge we have to expand, and

if there is a creator (not god) obviously set up to explore