Posts by Scully

32

Tips on how to raise money

by Holden Caufield in

i need some ideas to raise money for my study research trip for west africa in cape coast ghana..

Scully

Try a student loan, then.

I used it to finance my college education, and it took a long ass time to pay it off, but it is paid in full.

84

Why are the atheists on this site so hateful?

by HopeEverLasting in

jw
friends

all us creationists try to do is offer true evidence that the one and only god is out there watching and looking down on us.

we present that certain scientists know the truth about god and that he is everything that we see from trees, life, weather, the air we breath, and even the most simple molecules.

but of course you atheists reject it because it is your nature to not be humble and see god because you want to rule your own life.

Scully

HopeEverLasting writes:

Giles Gray, you are hateful. You saying I deserve the hate because of what I believe in. You are exactly the type to spew all that hatred. Talk to my hand.

You see, to someone who disagrees with your position, this attitude that you-disagree-with-my-beliefs-therefore-you-are-hateful is so counterproductive to honest dialogue.

How a discussion (that's what this board is for: discussion) works is like this:

Person who starts a thread [OP]: "I think (insert topic here), and here's why: (insert statements/assertions here)"

Person 1 who replies: "Well, I disagree with you, and here's why: (insert counterpoint/evidence here)"

Person 2 who replies: "Those are very interesting ideas, OP. Could you please clarify what you said [insert quotation]? and please explain how it relates to the counterpoint/evidence Person 1 posted."

OP: This is the part where, when your opinion / beliefs are challenged, you support your previous statements with actual evidence. You don't get to go on the defensive and call people "hateful" or "stupid" or whatever, simply because they disagree with you, or ask you to provide support for your claims. When you stoop to the level of ad hominem attacks (ie, name calling - attacking the individual rather than the ideas / evidence they present) you weaken your position in the discussion.

Frankly, as an atheist, I take exception to your out-of-the-gate accusation that "atheists are hateful on this site". I haven't said one hateful thing to you, ever, yet you lump me in with people you claim are hateful to you or creationists, when actual "hate" is not even close to what is actually happening. What is actually happening is that people are trying to show you an alternate position to one that you hold to be true. That's not hateful, it's not even unkind.

Let me put it another way: Suppose you know someone who is teaching their children something that is patently false, for instance that there are fairies living in their garden, that can't be seen because they only come out at night to cover the plants and spider webs with dewdrops, when the children are sleeping. It seems like a harmless enough make believe story for children to believe in, but what if this child grows up and still holds to the belief that everyone's back garden has fairies living there? What if it was your workmate? Would you feel at all compelled by kindness and wanting to spare them embarrassment to try to relieve them of their false belief? Would you show them scientific evidence of how dew ends up on the plants?

Let's say you try this. Let's say it doesn't go well. Your workmate feels their beliefs have been unjustly attacked by someone who "hates" garden variety fairies. Would that reaction seem absurd to you?

Anyway, I'm not here to try to dissuade you from what you believe. Please do me and the other atheists the courtesy of refraining from trying to shove your beliefs down our throats. Most of us (the atheists of JWD) are ex-JWs and feel that we've had enough preaching in our lifetimes. You are very welcome to discuss creationist points of view with other creationists here and on other forums, but please note that other people (other creationists included) are equally welcome to hold your feet to the fire and challenge the truth of your claims.

Thank you, and good night.

Moderator Scully

103

JW and the Sabbath

by Andromeda in

hello brothers and sisters and truth seekers,.

i am an active jehovah's witness.

i don't believe in 1914 and i'm tototally against their way of dealing with abuse cases.

Scully

Thanks, Andromeda - I was under the impression that you wanted to keep the discussion on-topic, so I'll just try to clarify what I said earlier.

You are clearly aware that the average JW, unlike yourself, has a very limited depth of biblical understanding, due in large part to the WT having discouraged deep bible study in favour of its own sad-excuse-for-biblical-scholarship publications.

My point is this: if you were to have your average JW look at Romans 14:5, they would be confounded, because on face value it places the onus on the *individual* as to the observance of one day over another. Your deeper understanding is way over their heads, and would be irrelevant to them.

When you know your "frenemy" and the thought processes they employ, you can confound them using their own logic.

fwiw, I am an atheist and have been for almost 20 years. But when I talk to my JW relatives, my ability to use their own "sword" against them has been very useful.

103

JW and the Sabbath

by Andromeda in

hello brothers and sisters and truth seekers,.

i am an active jehovah's witness.

i don't believe in 1914 and i'm tototally against their way of dealing with abuse cases.

Scully

Andromeda:

"that verse is strictly about food"

Verse 5 clearly is about the observance of any given day and the importance it holds to the one choosing to observe it:

One man judges one day as above another; another judges one day the same as all others; let each one be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day observes it to Jehovah.

51

Why are anniversaries allowed but not birthdays?

by hyperpen in

the scripture quotes aside, i was always told that we don't celebrate birthdays because that is a celebration of the self, which has no place in jehovah's organization.

then why celebrate anniversaries?

anniversary celebrations are about the joining of two selves, isn't that twice as selfish?.

Scully

If JWs want to be party poopers and not celebrate their own birthdays, that's fine with me.

As long as "each one is fully convinced in his own mind" (Romans 14:5) they can observe or not observe whatever day they wish. THAT is in the Bible™. Their Bible™. The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures™.

One man judges one day as above another; another judges one day the same as all others; let each one be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day observes it to Jehovah. Also, the one who eats, eats to Jehovah, for he gives thanks to God; and the one who does not eat does not eat to Jehovah, and yet gives thanks to God.

If they wish to argue over scripture, this is one that just doesn't rate worthy of arguing over.

If everyone gets to celebrate their birthday - not in a form of worshipful reverence, but in appreciation for someone having touched their lives in a positive way - how does it elevate one person above another, if literally *everyone* has a birthday??

Frankly, if God™ is so insecure about being worshipped when people have a party for someone's birthday, or wish someone "Happy Birthday", or send a card with birthday wishes, he doesn't deserve to be worshipped. Period.

103

JW and the Sabbath

by Andromeda in

hello brothers and sisters and truth seekers,.

i am an active jehovah's witness.

i don't believe in 1914 and i'm tototally against their way of dealing with abuse cases.

Scully

The best scripture you can use to your advantage is Romans 14:5, 6:

One man judges one day as above another; another judges one day the same as all others; let each one be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day observes it to Jehovah. Also, the one who eats, eats to Jehovah, for he gives thanks to God; and the one who does not eat does not eat to Jehovah, and yet gives thanks to God.

My position would be that as long as you don't try to sway your fellow JWs to your point of view or try to impose your point of view on others, you should be safe from repercussions. How you decide to observe the Sabbath is none of their business, really, just as it's none of their business which grocery store you decide to shop at or what kind of car you drive and what brand of fuel you put in the tank.

The various factions of Judaism can't even agree on how strictly the Sabbath should be observed, and I would venture to guess that they have had thousands of years to figure this one out, but for some reason, they haven't. Just be chill, do what you like in the privacy of your home and family, and don't try to force your beliefs on others. If you do this, you will have peace in your life.

69

There is a new letter to elders about Child Abuse

by ttdtt in

anyone see that there is a long letter on how to handle child abuse?.

Scully

may now qualify for minor privileges, such as carrying or adjusting microphones, operating audio/video equipment, or assisting with accounts, literature, magazines, or territories

My issue is not with such so-called "minor privileges". Why the hell are these monsters permitted to participate in Field Ministry™? If they put a blanket ban on Door-to-Door™ for child molesters, it would keep the Congregation™ from "sharing in the sins of others", by permitting a molester access to children, their parents and their homes. Sure, they claim that a known molester should be "supervised" by an Elder™ when they participate in Field Service™, but how do they know that the molester is not scoping out vulnerable families while going Door-to-Door™? How do they know that the molester - once they establish contact with a vulnerable family while going Door-to-Door™ - won't attempt to return ALONE at a later time? Why the hell are they aiding and abetting molesters in locating targets by insisting that they participate in Field Ministry™?

24

The Shunning truth is now out...

by babygirl30 in

jw
friends

i have been df'd for 9yrs as of july 31 (yay me!).

so as i have written about previously in other posts, my whole family (parents + sister) made the choice to treat me as if i do not exist, and i have accepted it.

last summer they made a blatant show of it as our family reunion, in that they would walk right by me and not say one word...prompting our extended family to question their actions.

Scully

I guess I've been lucky - my JW family members wouldn't dare shun me (Inactive™, not DFd) with Worldly™ family members present. They are so desperate that the non-JWs regard them as "normal" that they pretend not to be fanatics.

13

Active JWs celebrating birthdays

by neat blue dog in

i remember hearing parents say they're going out to eat for their child's birthday some years ago, and recently i see a lot of active jws wishing each other as well as worldly people on facebook a happy birthday, including emoticons related to partying.

is this a judicial offence, or have you seen anything similar?.

Scully

I used to know a JW family (the father was the PO at the time) where each family member's birthday was observed, on their birthday, by going out to a restaurant that would give the birthday person's meal free. They declined the staff birthday-serenade and cake. If the mother in that family knew it was your birthday, she would go up to you and lip sync the Happy Birthday song to you. No music, no vocals = no birthday wishes.

It never ceases to amaze me the logistical gymnastics that were employed to find these loopholes and work-arounds.

13

Is wife beginning to turn around?

by StarTrekAngel in

so some may have read the long and boring post about our last vacation and some of the things that my wife came to tell me during our time away.

i am adding the link here but i can summarize it for time's sake.. https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5768475763015680/vacation-time-reality-closing-up-on-my-wife.

in a nutshell, right before we left, we found out of a jw couple we know well.

Scully

When I was having issues with the hypocrisy that I was aware of within our Congregation™, my mom recommended that I basically suck it up, and remember that my relationship with Jehovah™ was the important thing, not how other JWs were behaving.

I said: "You know, it's interesting how if I was someone that you met In Service™ talking about the hypocrisy in their church, you wouldn't hesitate to point out that this was proof positive that their religion was false. How is it that when JWs behave badly and hypocritically, that the same measuring stick doesn't apply to them?"

She couldn't answer me.

We became Inactive™ more than 20 years ago, and while my parents don't go out of their way to call or visit so they feel they are compliant with JW rules, they've never turned me away or refused to speak with me.