@Nathan Natas - Interestingly, the JW predilection for pseudo-scientific alternative medicine was one of the things that woke me up. I figured if MOST witnesses are willing to believe in that nonsense, perhaps their religious beliefs are also nonsense...
doubtfull1799
JoinedPosts by doubtfull1799
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35
"would you drink a glass of water if it had just a tiny bit of poison in it?"
by stuckinarut2 inno doubt we have all heard that well used "illustration" in public talks etc over the years:.
"if you were handed a glass of water that looked pure, but were told it has just a tiny drop of poison in it, would you drink it?".
the society has used that illustration at length to say we should avoid all influences of every part of the world.. but, as we know, the society has had a track record of errors, false ideas and doctrines.
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Hank's Witnesses
by doubtfull1799 injust had to share this - it was posted on reddit.
a brilliant and entertaining debunking of theism.. https://youtu.be/6x-lw9pc6ie.
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doubtfull1799
Just had to share this - it was posted on reddit. A brilliant and entertaining debunking of Theism.
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Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?
by stuckinarut2 inlets play a fun game?.
we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".
8 ask questions.
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doubtfull1799
So I got about 4:30 in and Daniel C Peterson starts out with the best of counter arguments - to attack Dawkins and/or Hitchens' MOTIVES! I hope it improves from there!
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Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?
by stuckinarut2 inlets play a fun game?.
we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".
8 ask questions.
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doubtfull1799
I would respectfully disagree with you @Cold Steel.
I HAVE taken courses in OT theology and it doesn't change the fact that God did not always warn people before destroying or king them - remember Uzzah for example? 2 Sam 6:7. And how exactly were the tribes that the Israelites conquered warned by God? He did not speak to them did he, he only prophesied to or warned the Israelites.
You say you have no problem with God destroying people who practised forced prostitution, but it was God himself that condoned such practices. How do you account for the Israelites being instructed by him to take the virgins for themselves as spoils of war? For what purpose other than rape would this be for. Legitimised by forced marriage. Do you really think that a young girl would willingly marry and have sex with a soldier that just slaughtered her whole family in front of her eyes?
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Crossing the Elders
by Cold Steel infew things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.
it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.
it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?
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doubtfull1799
I served as an Elder for many years in a number of congregations so I can answer your questions (from my own experience anyway).
I accepted the position with a genuine desire to teach, help, and care for others. I've worked with many other humble elders who worked hard to do the same without any sense of entitlement, control or power. However I also worked with some others who did act as masters over others and enjoyed a sense of "control" over people. And some who were very bad apples. So I guess its a mixed bag, though in my experience there were more of the former than the latter.
Elders are certainly not above or immune to counsel, only they usually would receive counsel from fellow elders. Though I was certainly on occasions "counselled" (and accepted the counsel) by rank and file members (including sisters).
My relationships with friends did not on the whole change when I was appointed, though some who are not close friends certainly look at you or treat you a bit differently. Some show more respect, others just hate all elders (perhaps because of a bad experience with the bad eggs) so they treated you worse!
Elders report to each other and to the branch office (usually via the Circuit Overseer, but sometimes via direct letter). An anointed member, if they were a sister or a non-appointed brother, would still be subject tot he authority of the Elders.
The anointed ones are no longer members of the F&DS - this was a recent change of doctrine (in 2013 I think), only the GB are now the F&DS.
Elders are called "Brother" not "Elder so and so". Elder is not used as a title... well not in the sense of a descriptive title when referring to an individual. It IS a title describing the position.
Hope that helps?
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Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?
by stuckinarut2 inlets play a fun game?.
we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".
8 ask questions.
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doubtfull1799
Here's another one I was thinking about the other day:
Ephesians 4:29: "Let a rotten word not come out of your mouth, but only what is good for building up as the need may be, to impart what is beneficial to the hearers."
So what do we learn of God's qualities? Hypocrisy. The Bible is full of rotten stuff, not just "positive" things for upbuilding. So why did he not follow his own instructions here ands only impart to his readers what is "beneficial"?
I was speaking to a still in elder the other day, one of my old colleagues, and we were discussing some of the more horrible aspects of the OT (children being mauled by bears, sex slavery, people being hacked to pieces etc) and he admitted he doesn't read them as he finds them upsetting - not upbuilding!
Deut 28:15-57 is a classic example where Jehovah spews out verse after verse of utter "rottenness"
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Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?
by stuckinarut2 inlets play a fun game?.
we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".
8 ask questions.
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doubtfull1799
OK, how about this one from yesterday's Watchtower:
When praised, we do well to apply Jesus' words: "When you have done all the things assigned to you, say: 'We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.'" (Luke 17:10)
The study goes on to say it would be haughty to accept praise or appreciation, instead we should "speak appreciatively of Jehovah" and what he does for us.
So this scripture teaches us that God is a horrible friend and/or parent. He insists on constant praise & appreciation, but does not show appreciation for others in return. Instead he treats them like slaves, like mere chattel, unworthy of human dignity. Humans need affirmation and acknowledgement, something that God must have designed in us as part of our reflection of His personality, yet as our father he withholds fulfilling that need.
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doubtfull1799
Oh no, where did you find this?
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Ritualistic behaviour within the JW faith
by stuckinarut2 ini was thinking about how the society criticises other faiths such as catholics because of their ritualistic procedures.. but couldn't it be said that witnesses have their own deeply ritualistic behaviours?.
think about the prayers said at meetings.
they all have to follow the same basic style and theme, and include the same basic content.. what about the ritualistic procedures of the memorial, and the passing of emblems - even to the servers and speaker (although they actually handle them more than everyone, they do their own special act of passing them to each other).
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doubtfull1799
That silly ritual of passing the emblems back and forward to the speaker and servers always bothered me. I tried many times as an Elder to try and stop it, but was always overruled by the majority!
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Research Help?
by vienne inas at least some of you know, i am coauthor of two history books about zion's watch tower's earliest years.
we are at a dead end with one of the watch tower's earliest evangelists, s. d. rogers.
we do not know his first name or have any biography outside of a scattering of newspaper articles and mentions in zwt.
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doubtfull1799
Which two books are those vienne? Would be interested to read them (if I haven't already!)