The more science provides a rational framework for explaining the world around us, the more theists have to wrap God up in mystical and philosophical nonsense to allow for his existence, impotence and inaction.
konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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43
Atheism would not appeared if …
by venus in· if religions were immune to division.
· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.
· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.
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After the 'Miracle' Chairs Video, What Pointless Tasks have you seen Assigned?
by Slidin Fast insheffield 1980s i think.
there was a grassy area that needed mowing to put a collapsible baptismal pool on i think.
there was no mower so they gave a bunch of sisters a pair of scissors each and they went on their knees and snipped away.. only in jehovah's organisation!.
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konceptual99
Any time any one has sent any one else out to do preaching work surely...
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Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request
by wifibandit inthis week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.
if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .
childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.
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konceptual99
So, how, konceptual, is it a problem for admitted (by the very fact that they are "repentent" ) child molesters to be excluded from the congregation permanently?
And this doesn't even touch the fact that these admitted, "repentent" child molesters are unreported to the police, and none of those civil protections can be enacted unless the law compels them to.
DFing would be the only protection other congregants could get.If we were talking about a situation where people are not reported then that is the key issue and it is this that has to stop. In this case I don't care about DFing as it protects nobody in the long run - an allegation has to be investigated by the authorities and appropriate action taken with the individual.
It it were my club then I'd not let a pedo in but the Witnesses (and pretty much any other Christian religion) is very unlikely to ever ever refuse a convicted pedo from ever a being a member. It's not consistent with a teaching of forgivness, redemption etc.
Now we all know that pedos are not the same as someone who as committed some kind of misdemeanour but even if a person was DF'ed then, assuming they have done the time and are being monitored by the state, then why would they never be allowed to be reinstated?
Even if they were DFed for ever more there are still cases where the org may no be able to DF for whatever the reason is, maybe even where the state cannot substantiate an allegation and convict yet there is still reason to be concerned. People may come into contact with the congregation through a number of circumstances that cannot be managed simply by refusing people entry.
This is why a single, clear, publicly available document that identifies all these risks and details appropriate measures to handle them is critical. It's why they need to look beyond the confines of the congregation and understand that their actions (or inaction) have an impact on the community as a whole and they need to engage with the organisations best placed to keep the public as a whole safe from an individual.
This is where the Australia document really falls down.
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Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request
by wifibandit inthis week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.
if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .
childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.
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konceptual99
What about all of the other children in the organization around the world? Why are they handling criminal acts in the first place, as though their unlettered and ordinary men have any business handling such matters? Why do they do as little as possible for their members but demand as much as possible from them?
In this Jehovah sets the precedent. It is he who apparently blesses his people with literature carts, new buildings and animations for the kids but is unwilling to stop people being killed in their thousands, sometimes tens or even hundreds of thousands, through natural disasters.
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How deep is the rot?
by JeffT inby now it seems obvious that the gb and other leaders of the wtbs are corrupt.
the pedo scandal and various financial schemes are sustained by either lack of concern or greed at the top.
my question is how far down the food chain does this go?
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konceptual99
The vast majority believe. Some will have doubts but whitewash over them. I really don't think any of the GB think it's BS even if they are struggling to come up with anything deep and meaningful. They gave up with that years ago and now it's just fluff - keep people busy so they don't think about it too much.
I don't think there is a deliberate conspiracy to cover up some knowledge it's all rubbish. I do think there is a deliberate policy to grab money and flip property however.
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Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request
by wifibandit inthis week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.
if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .
childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.
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konceptual99
There will be no mention of how they were forced to do this - nor that the 2 witness rule still will make this difficult
The two witness rule applies to what action the elders can take in terms of congregation discipline. I would agree that there are still holes in this policy and it needs to be freely available as a notice board document and downloadable from jw.org but I don't think there is anything in there that restricts the reporting of an allegation to the authorities even in the event the elders cannot act right away due to the two witness rule.
The policy is clear that anyone can report an allegation. Of course it is limited in that there is no compulsion on the part of elders to be proactive in supporting this and I am still worried about the cultural norms of deference to the organisation trumping people's better moral judgement but I do think there is a step in the right direction of there being a separation of religious process and secular process.
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Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request
by wifibandit inthis week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.
if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .
childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.
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konceptual99
Due to the serious and complex nature of the offense, rather than simply taking for granted that the abuser is repentant, I would say that the he or she should at least be required to attend accredited counseling sessions for a period of time. If he or she isn't willing to do that, then they aren't truly repentant.
To be fair there has been endless criticism of their approach that risks keeping it all within the congregation. The whole point is to get the authorities involved asap. If someone is accused of a crime then let the authorities deal with it. There is a strong chance they will end up be forcibly removed from the congregation to a cell. If someone is a convicted pedo and has been through the justice system then the authorities should be monitoring that person in terms of whatever rehab might be possible. The congregation need to then take steps to ensure that person cannot be a position where they could abuse a child.
ln my opinion, the new policy ( and other policies) should be left posted in the Hall and copies should be available to anyone who wants them without having to ask anyone. Members should be encouragement to review the policy(s) from time to time lest new parents or newly converted members be unaware of the past problem.
This of course is very true.
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Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request
by wifibandit inthis week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.
if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .
childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.
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konceptual99
And, dang, did they learn nothing?
Only UNREPENTANT child abusers are disfellowshipped.
Say "sorry" and you're still good to go in the congregation.
Sigh...Question is what do you really expect them to do? Are you saying that no one could be a Witness if they had been convicted of being a abuser? They are allowed to have jobs, travel, have relationships etc. so why would they be banned from ever being a Witness? They could be DF'ed but are you saying that they could never be reinstated? What about a study that wants to be baptised? Does being a pedo prevent them from being allowed in the hall? I'd love it to be the case but I don't think it's realistic.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the underlying sentiment however it's not DFing someone that keeps children safe. All it's done in the past is push the problem away from being any concern of the WTS. It's not a protection in itself.
What is a protection is someone being reported to and dealt with by the authorities. Congregation sanctions have done very little to protect children. Being arrested by the police has.
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Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request
by wifibandit inthis week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.
if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .
childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.
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konceptual99
Good. It's not perfect. It should be downloadable from the web site but it's a big step in the right direction. Why this took so long to get even this far is madness but let's be thankful that Australia is the first place to do this and hopefully won't be the last.
My money is on the UK to preempt the current inquiry...
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This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe
by cofty insometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.
various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.
i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.
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konceptual99
The sad thing is that for years I would have dismissed the questions raised by the OP as the result of not having an accurate knowledge of The Truth. I would have had a wry smile that Christendom could not answer these things yet here I was in possession of the full answers.
As the veil has been lifted it is clear that these questions can only be answered by theists by resorting to the supernatural, by claiming that the divine has answers we cannot grasp - a position I now totally reject.
When I speak about these things with my wife now I can sense the pity that somehow I have become blinded by the secular and fallen into a darkness where I can no longer see the blindingly obvious. When mysticism trumps logic then there can be no reasoning.