How deep is the rot?

JeffT

By now it seems obvious that the GB and other leaders of the WTBS are corrupt. The pedo scandal and various financial schemes are sustained by either lack of concern or greed at the top. My question is how far down the food chain does this go? Are local elders just as complicit in what's going on, or have they been duped into accepting the Society's whitewash of events? I've been out for so long I have no idea what is happening at the local level.

Magnum

In my area, it seems the local elders are duped. They are just plain out blind and gullible. It's possible that one or two sense that something is wrong, but they won't even remotely visit the possibility that the religion could be wrong overall.

I agree with you about the corruption. Some of them have to know what's going on, yet they still rob lives.

Finkelstein

Are local elders just as complicit in what's going on, or have they been duped into accepting the Society's whitewash of events?

I think they are just as deluded to the facts just like every other JWS, they perceive there might be a problem but mother (GB) at HQ will resolve the problem in its present form.

Brainwashed devoted followers within a cult are always complicate.

If there is a problem the GB at HQ will look after it, they are god's chosen ones after all.

Shush be quiet and wait for the spiritual food at the proper time.

LongHairGal

JEFF T:

I've been out sixteen years so I don't know from personal experience either what is happening at the local level there.

However, everything I have read on the forum about the changes in the religion regarding meetings and literature has been confirmed to me by the 1-2 JW friends I have left in the religion when I "carefully" question them.

But, I think the average Witness is in a news blackout and has NO idea about the religion's scandals. They don't know about the Australian commission or the fact that halls are being sold all over the world and congregations merged. They may see it as something happening here and there but don't suspect anything else.

In my opinion, most Witnesses are "innocent" and hoping for the best and how Jehovah's going to straighten it all out. They don't even know what "it" is (unless they saw commercials or ads about child molestation), but some are disheartened and have their own issues, personal and financial.

If they are in late middle age or elderly, they are NOT leaving the JW religion in my opinion. It's too late and they are too heavily invested. Maybe here and there some will leave BUT they have to set up their "new life" outside first. If JW family is in the picture, it's complicated. If there's no JW family, it's relatively easy.

But, it takes careful planning to make a successful exit. It's like looking for another job!

never a jw

Are elders part of the corruption?? No, duped, perhaps. All the elders that I know don't seem to get any financial benefit. They just get drunk in the power trip of controlling the lives of 100 gullible people. Even circuit overseers are duped. The district overseers would have been in the category where the duped coexisted with the corrupt. That's possibly why they are extinct today. The GB didn't want any overlapping of the wolves and the lambs.

notsurewheretogo

Local elders have no clue...they simply believe the hierarchy above them is controlled by God thus they accept everything the "letters" they get say.

ToesUp

Most Elders can't feel like a "big boy" anywhere else in life, so they get their jollies playing with other peoples lives.

xjwsrock

I agree with many statements above. To add to ToesUp comment, I will say that they (elders) aren't allowed very many other outlets to be a 'big boy'. It's a sick twisted abusive web. It's like weak personalities are set up to fail in this religion.

I am an elder still. How much longer who knows. I have set a definite line in the calendar sand, though. Summer of next year. I have been hoping for progress with the wife but I am starting to lose hope for that. She literally knows no other way to think and is so damn trained to revolt against "negative speech". Anyway I digress..

To answer the opening question, it falls into yet another category where you have to resist black-and-white thinking. There is no one size fits all with this stuff. Each individual elder and each individual publisher is their own person with their own level of "awakeness" and/or delusion. If they are awake and still serving, it may be for self-serving greedy reasons or it may make them physically ill at times to go along with the deception in an effort to win over family. The religion teaches us all to be huge fakes at the kingdom hall. So who knows who anybody really is or what anybody really believes.

Most on my elder body are pretty bought-in it seems. I see some dissension occasionally but not much. They are all scared of the next guy up the chain. These guys are committed to being elders for life it appears. Never do you hear a peep about stepping aside. It is a big part of their identity.

With that said there are obviously people up the chain that are complete con-artists. Some CO's I would say are. I have met a few that had a funny look in their eye, if you follow me. Some are all about the financial advantages.

That reminds me. I knew an elder once (one of the bad ones). If you pressed him on something incriminating or suspicious, he would stop talking, turn, and simply walk off to avoid answering the question or addressing the subject. LOL. .. Funny to think about now. I knew him before I was awake. He was definitely awake then and working the system.

The Searcher

Two classes of elders in my view:

1) I have a relative who is a dyed-in-the-wool J.W. elder, and trusts the org implicitly. Totally loyal & blinded.

2) Elder who has seen and learned so much that he seriously & privately rejects many of the org's changes and teachings, but can't/won't exit for personal reasons; loss of family/friends, position in the congregation, or the old chestnut - "where else can we go?"

DesirousOfChange

As a gung-ho Elder, I was completely duped. I believed it all. I thought I was working for the Lord. I thought my prayers about Cong matters were being answered and I truly felt the Organization, at every level, was being directed by God's own hand. I really think that most Elders still believe that way.

I wonder HOW FAR UP does the "rot" begin? The COs that I have been close to, are believers. The "old school" COs gave everything to the bOrg. (The new COs seem to be Company Men, though I suspect they still believe they are "working for God & Christ".)

So just where does the "rot" creep in? If all of here are "smart" enough to have discovered TTATT, they how can those in "high places" not also know? How can those in the Writing Committee who use bogus quotes, not know that it's all Bullshit? How can those in the Teaching Committee that peddle the 607 doctrine and the ridiculous overlappy gen doctrine NOT KNOW? They are the men who are spinning this "yarn" of crap. They must realize that they would lose everything if they exposed it as a farce -- as nothing more than a money whoring business. But their comfy lifestyle is based on continuing the lies.

The GB? I've met and entertained a couple of them in our home. They were the old timers. None of the New Boys. But the old guys that I met really believed, IMO. But all of this was before much of the New Light we have today. I think if the new guys are still really "believers" then they are just grasping at straws to try to make some sense of it all. Stalling for time. Hoping Armageddon comes and solves all the problems they are facing.

How deep is the rot?

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