konceptual99

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Posts by konceptual99

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  43

  Kids continue to leave in droves - so what is the organization's grand plan? This

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jws have one of the worst, if not the worst, retention rates among their kids.

  i've seen numbers from 65% to 88% who leave, never to return.. you'd think this would be a priority amongst the leadership, right?

  where do tomorrow's leaders come from, if the vast majority of kids leave the organization?

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  konceptual99

  Use emotional videos at RCs to reinforce fear, obligation and guilt.
• 
  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

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  konceptual99

  Just to add, right now the argument seems circular....

  1. Kate - The auto catalystic nature of L/H molecule creation leads me to conclude it is being guided by God.

  2. Others - why?

  3. Kate - see 1.

  I have an open mind Kate and am happy to be convinced. The question is what can you add to your argument that convinces? I don't have to think differently to you, I could be persuaded to think the same as you but what is the reason that I should? Why should I not accept that the L/H molecule thing is a product of natural selection? What are the weaknesses in that conclusion?
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  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

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  konceptual99

  Indeed. I am not interested in having an argument about the merits of one conclusion or another.

  Kate - your OP uses the example of process that L/H molecules come into existence by. If I understand your OP the fact that this is an auto-catalytic process where the reaction is the catalyst for further reactions leads you to conclude that God is guiding this process.

  Given that there is an alternative and reasonable explanation, why is it that you have concluded God is guiding it?
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  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

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  konceptual99

  But why is it your conclusion? There is no need to attribute it to a God as there is a perfectly acceptable reason suggested by natural selection. I agree that in itself is no proof that NS is responsible but it does fit with the rest of science. Many, many, many other lines of scientific evidence show zero need for a God so what is it about the creation of L/H molecules that make you conclude that God is guiding this chemical process?
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  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

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  konceptual99

  Good point, this is exactly what Bhom's conclusion is too. I think both perspectives are valid, but neither are absolute yet. In time science will have conclusive evidence, until then we can only draw conclusions from what we have.

  I'm not drawing any conclusions as yet. I've understood the flow of the argument such that the presence of just L/H in living things does not disprove natural selection as the process that determined this. Equally it is not possible to disprove this result as being due to the guidance of a deity.

  The question then is why you think it is guided? Why does the evidence lead you to that conclusion. The process in itself can be the result of natural selection, it doesn't need a "god of the gaps". So why the need to attribute it to a deity?
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  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

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  konceptual99

  So what is your conclusion?

  I don't know Kate. I don't understand the subject enough to see there being a problem with this at all. Is the dominance of L/H molecules a problem? Is this simply just a case of natural selection at work? Are you saying that something is guiding the chemical process so that only L/H molecules are formed in living things? Why can this not be natural selection?
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  31

  Why JW's Rave So Much About Conventions

  by freemindfade in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "it was so beautiful, we are truly blessed!

  now, they also plaster these affirmations all over social media, "this is the best life", “so blessed”, “best convention”.. why the gushing?

  have you ever heard anyone say, “mmmm it was ok”?

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  konceptual99

  Some great comments on here.

  It's all about reinforcing the expected response over and over again. The reality is everyone is doing it, how many actually really, really, really think it was the #bestconventionever?

  Like respectful_observer I take zero pictures of any JW activity. I also never like or respond to them on social media, especially the fecking stupid big JW.ORG things people do like writing it in 3m high letters in the sand. F....wits.

  I also don't wear a badge. I love r_c's response. I will try and use that next time my lack of a badge attracts comment.
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  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

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  konceptual99

  No, you're right Kate, I'm not interested. I've only spent the vast majority of my life embedded in a cult that has reinforced a dogmatic view of the world, discouraged knowledge and education and now that I have mentally freed myself from these shackles all I am interested in doing is remaining comfortable in my ignorance.

  You are infuriating sometimes

  Anyway....

  As I said, I have no qualifications associated with chemistry so I can't claim any special insight into the subject. I do know that what I have looked at over the past few years has led me to conclude that overall there is nothing to support the idea of a proactive deity at the helm of what we see around us. Having said that I also know that there are some things that some very bright people do consider not to be easily explained away by purely naturalistic mechanisms. I am interested in understanding the arguments for and against the differing conclusions.

  If I understand what you have written correctly then in nature only the L/H molecule is produced by autocatalysis. How does the R/H molecule get formed then? What's the catalyst?
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  19

  JWs Demonstrating against the Demonstrators

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the organization never ceases to amaze.you've got to see this video for yourself so i won't say much about it.

  i wonder if this practice has been endorsed and sanctioned by the governing body and if we will see more of it in the future.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbuxbx1ktci.

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  konceptual99

  I've seen this type of thing done before where "watchmen" and attendants are used to surround people. It's a bit silly as most dubs are conditioned to ignore this stuff anyway.
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  83

  Seeking support ... Where can a Christian go

  by Sevan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey all, .

  so i recently posted for the first time and introduced myself.. i have been spending time reading various posts.

  some informative, some not so much.. since i've been reading on here, i've read a lot from atheists.

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  konceptual99

  Cofty, You have avoided the point. Did you call me dishonest? Is it substantiated? Making unsubstantiated allegations is attacking someone. My view of attacking people is different from yours. Your evidence does not back up your conclusions my evidence backs up my conclusions. You have not been able to refute my evidence.

  Cofty, I have been searching for the post because I knew you would ask. But sadly I can't find it. The point is I know I am honest. Your allegations are unsubstantiated, and I feel attacked by you now, just because I disagree with you it doesn't mean I am dishonest.

  Why does it always get to this nonsense?

  Kate, from my reading of the thread you came out of nowhere with an allegation that Cofty had accused you of dishonesty and attacked you. Cofty has asked you for the example which you can't provide and now he's attacking you even more apparently. He hasn't made any allegations - how the hell can he be attacking you?

  IMHO Kate you have the background that should mean you are flying the flag for theists here, able to provide a reasonable case for how belief in a God can be squared with science. Your qualifications are way above mine so I'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  Cofty may be terse sometimes but he is (IMHO) usually fair and always presents empirical evidence to support his view. Time and time again however, rebuttals end up being centred on "feelings" and unsubstantiated "reasons". Calling that out as intellectual dishonesty is not a personal attack, it's simply the truth.