konceptual99

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Posts by konceptual99

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  15

  A Linguistic Argument for the Existence of God

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.etsjets.org/files/jets-pdfs/58/58-4/jets_58-4_771-86_baumgardner&lyon.pdf.

  my favourite "logical" progression.... we demonstrated that because meaning is non-material, linguistic expressions likewise must be non-material.

  we further showed that there is no indication that matter can generate non-material meaning-bearing linguistic expressions.

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  konceptual99

  My apologies if I have misunderstood.
  I think you are playing Devil's advocate?

  No problem!

  I think waking up to the reality of how sound the argument for evolution really is, trumps pretty much every other aspect of my mental exit from da troof.
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  15

  A Linguistic Argument for the Existence of God

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.etsjets.org/files/jets-pdfs/58/58-4/jets_58-4_771-86_baumgardner&lyon.pdf.

  my favourite "logical" progression.... we demonstrated that because meaning is non-material, linguistic expressions likewise must be non-material.

  we further showed that there is no indication that matter can generate non-material meaning-bearing linguistic expressions.

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  konceptual99

  It is a common misunderstanding that DNA is written in some sort of language or that it contains "information".

  It doesn't.

  These things are simply metaphors.

  The problem is that it is a very apt metaphor and every textbook and web article about genetics will refer to language and/or information.

  Given it is such a useful and ubiquitous metaphor, this made me think about how one could successfully explain exactly why the genetic code containing within DNA should not be considered as "information", even less a language.
  This provides a good starting point...
  http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB180.html
  
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  15

  A Linguistic Argument for the Existence of God

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.etsjets.org/files/jets-pdfs/58/58-4/jets_58-4_771-86_baumgardner&lyon.pdf.

  my favourite "logical" progression.... we demonstrated that because meaning is non-material, linguistic expressions likewise must be non-material.

  we further showed that there is no indication that matter can generate non-material meaning-bearing linguistic expressions.

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  konceptual99

  Oh yes there is ;-)

  Meaning is encoded by genetic language in the DNA of every living organism in the same manner in which meaning is encoded by any other type of language. Since meaning is abstract and non-material, the meaning conveyed by genetic language, as with any other language, likewise is abstract and non-material. One of the most striking contrasts between genetic language and languages utilized by humans is the complexity of the encoding. Because each DNA letter, or nucleotide, commonly is utilized simultaneously by several overlapping but distinct messages, the amount of meaning or specification conveyed per letter far exceeds that of human languages.

  ....

  Like other examples of formal language, the linguistic elements in DNA responsible for describing the proteins from which these machines are built also involves assignment of meaning to words to form a vocabulary and rules for joining the words together to form more complex linguistic expressions.

  Not only that Cofty, but they use the example of a molecular rotary machine to kick any argument against Creation out of the ball park...

  One example of these nano-machines is ATP synthase (see Figure 2). ATP synthase is a rotary machine found in all organisms, from bacteria to humans, and plays a crucial role in cellular metabolism. This machine is built from approximately a dozen different proteins and consists of about 90,000 atoms. The details for its astonishing structure, to the level of each individual atom, are specified linguistically in the organism’s DNA. It is the power of linguistic encoding of meaning that makes such detailed specification possible.

  Case closed......

  .....

  ....

  Unless you can read a book... or use Google....
  
  
• 
  15

  A Linguistic Argument for the Existence of God

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.etsjets.org/files/jets-pdfs/58/58-4/jets_58-4_771-86_baumgardner&lyon.pdf.

  my favourite "logical" progression.... we demonstrated that because meaning is non-material, linguistic expressions likewise must be non-material.

  we further showed that there is no indication that matter can generate non-material meaning-bearing linguistic expressions.

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• 

  konceptual99

  http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/58/58-4/JETS_58-4_771-86_Baumgardner&Lyon.pdf

  My favourite "logical" progression...

  We demonstrated that because meaning is non-material, linguistic expressions likewise must be non-material. We further showed that there is no indication that matter can generate non-material meaning-bearing linguistic expressions. Why should we expect that even to be possible, given that matter and meaning are in separate ontological realms? On the other hand, as humans we are immersed in language realities. We associate our own use of language with our own mental faculties. It seems indisputable that the source of our thoughts and other language expressions is our mind. For lack of any other plausible explanation for linguistic phenomena other than a mind like our own, the linguistic coding observed in the DNA of every living organism points to a mind with the capabilities that most people associate with the term God.

  I really hope that Cofty has some time to rip into this one....
• 
  49

  Kim and mikeys chanel on YouTube they uploaded a video of more singing and dancing

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on their chanel they are showing a video of a special assembly day in belgium i believe.

  the jws are dancing dressed in black and red, satanic colores.

  singing and playing worldly songs and kingdom melodies.

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  konceptual99

  Dunno what the fuss is all about. It's become par for the course to put on entertainment for visiting delegates to special and international conventions. Whilst we have seen events at halls along with very tasteless virtual mobbing of arriving delegates in the past, this is clearly not within an assembly hall and is just a bunch of people having a fairly innocuous time.

  I know the WT would have critised Rock and Roll in the past but even the Witnesses are allowed to move on. As for comparisons with evangelical worship, this is not a service.

  This type of event does add to a body of evidence suggesting the whole tone of the org has changed and that there is perhaps a more general appeal to emotion rather than intellectual study but at the end of the day it's just a bunch of entertainment.
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  33

  New York Times article Dec 31 2015

  by Gayle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/01/nyregion/stalled-brooklyn-park-exposes-rift-with-religious-group.html?_r=0.

  jehovahs witnesses have been criticized by community leaders for not fixing up parks in dumbo, brooklyn, as promised.

  .

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  konceptual99

  Just in case anyone did not see this complimentary thread...

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5204095145082880/brooklyn-should-get-thank-you-from-wts
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  42

  Is the Pioneer School being eliminated?

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i heard from the semi reliable source that the pioneer schools will go the way of the dodo bird next year.. i could see this happening.

  it used to be that you went to the the pioneer school once.

  then they allowed dubs to go every 5 years.

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  konceptual99

  The pioneer meeting with the CO during his visit has been getting less exclusive over the recent couple of years. Now anyone can go basically. If the rumour is true then perhaps they will make that meeting more structured with video presentations?
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  38

  Anthony Morris Says The Governing Body Is Not Dogmatic, But Simply Must Be Obeyed If You Want Jehovah's Blessing

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  warning lots of compartmentalization going on, with huge leaps in logic and a whole lot of just beleive me because i say so.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyfm-zikbq.

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  konceptual99

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arVq_RKnMxM&feature=youtu.be

  Get it with subtitles while you can...
• 
  38

  Anthony Morris Says The Governing Body Is Not Dogmatic, But Simply Must Be Obeyed If You Want Jehovah's Blessing

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  warning lots of compartmentalization going on, with huge leaps in logic and a whole lot of just beleive me because i say so.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyfm-zikbq.

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  konceptual99

  Here you go Besty and anyone else...

  This morning I thought we'd connect to the fact that obedience to Jehovah always leads to his blessing and let's take the Apostles as an example

  
  

  Acts chapter 6 it would be good to read it. It's mentioned in our comments. One of the commenters connected the fact that they were involved with feeding previously literal food that Jesus miraculously provided but there's some things of interest here from the 1st century and then we'll bring it up in a moment to the modern day but let's read verses 1 through 4 of Acts Chapter six.

  
  

  Now in those days when the disciples were increasing, the greek-speaking Jews began complaining against the Hebrew speaking Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution. So the 12 called the multitude of the disciples together and said it is not right for us to leave the Word of God to distribute food to tables so brothers select for yourselves 7 reputable men from among you full of spirit and wisdom that we may appoint them over this necessary matter but we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the Ministry of the word.

  
  

  So this is what Jehovah wanted them to be focusing on, they should not leave the Word of God, they should be devoting themselves to prayer and in the ministry of the word. That was the focus and they recognize that and its apparent as you look through the account Acts, they were obedient to this and Jehovah blessed them because later go, to Acts chapter 16 please, things progressed and then they end up with various decisions that had to be made and the governing body did it in large beyond the apostles there in the first century as we know.

  
  

  So after some of these things were discussed at that level and they had been devoting themselves to the ministry of the word and prayer obviously, well, what's the results? Did Jehovah bless them?

  
  

  Well, the decisions were made. Now notice here in verse 4 of Acts 16. As they travelled on through the cities, they would deliver to them, all the congregations, for observance the decrees that had been decided on by the apostles and the elders who were in Jerusalem.

  
  

  So these decrees went out and because of their devoting themselves to the Ministry of the word and prayer, er, did Jehovah bless them? Did he bless those that obeyed the decrees? Was obedience leading to Jehovah's blessing for them as well?

  
  

  Well notice verse 5. Then, indeed, the congregations continued to be made firm in the faith and to increase in number day by day. So obviously Jehovah blessed the obedience that was displayed once these decrees were sent out. Now let's bring it up to modern day here, and you'll find this quite interesting, er I did. I assume you might find it of interest but here in verse 4, if you look at the original language about decrees, er I notice that the Greek there, the word "dogmata". Well, you can hear the word dogma there. er, well things have changed what it means in English now. It;s certainly not anything we want to say the faithful slave is guilty of.

  
  

  Er, notice here what dictionaries have had to say; if you referred to a belief or a system of beliefs as a dogma, you disapprove of it because people are expected to accept that it is true without questioning it.

  
  

  A dogmatic view, er, obviously is undesirable and one other dictionary said: if you say someone is dogmatic you are critical of them because they are convinced that they are right and refuse to consider that other opinions might also be justified.

  
  

  Well, l I don't think we would want to apply this to decisions that come out from the faithful slave in our time, now we have apostates and opposers who would like God's people to think that the faithful slave is dogmatic and they expect, er, you to accept everything that comes out from headquarters as if it's dogma, arbitrarily decided.

  
  

  Well, this does not apply and that's why it's properly translated decrees, and in our day like Brother Commerce prayed, and often the brothers do, about decisions that have been made not just by the governing body but branch committees, er, this is a theocratic arrangement. Jehovah's blessing the faithful slave and you need to keep in mind, we've made this point, but keep your place here, er, in Acts 16, but look again at Matthew 24, and we've made this point in the past, on verse 45, when the question was raised and now it's been answered in our day, Acts 24 verse 45.

  
  

  Who really is the faithful and discreet slave, singular see, whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time?

  
  

  So this is obvious that this slave is a composite slave. The decisions that are made by the faithful slave today are made collectively. So not one man's making these decisions. These decisions, if you wanna call them a decree, are made collectively so when that direction comes out to branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations, if you want Jehovah's blessing on you as an individual, or family, certainly as an elder, or congregation, it'd be best to just ask Jehovah to help you understand it but obey the decision.

  
  

  See that's the same things going to happen today happened in the first century. Notice in verse four and five of Acts 16, I asked you to keep your place there, so when circuit overseers visit and they've brought information from the faithful slave. When branch committee members, er, meet to discuss things and go by the guidelines, well, what's the result?

  
  

  According to verse five, then, see when these are obeyed, then indeed you're going to be made firm in the faith. Congregations will increase, branch territories will increase day-by-day. Why? Because as we mentioned beginning, Jehovah blesses obedience. This is a theocracy ruled by God not a collection of man-made decisions, this is governed from heaven.

  
  
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  38

  Anthony Morris Says The Governing Body Is Not Dogmatic, But Simply Must Be Obeyed If You Want Jehovah's Blessing

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  warning lots of compartmentalization going on, with huge leaps in logic and a whole lot of just beleive me because i say so.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyfm-zikbq.

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  konceptual99

  http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODProgramsEvents/pub-jwbmw_201509_1_VIDEO

  Working on the proper transcript now...