This is pure gold. He is making out that by being able to call Bethel Legal there is more support available that would prevent two witnesses from being needed and is now getting called out on it.
konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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57
Dino Ali Taking the Stand NOW
by AudeSapere indino ali, elder, taking the stand now in the australian hearings.. he's talking about interaction with disfellowshipped persons.. watch it live: .
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.
-aude..
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57
Dino Ali Taking the Stand NOW
by AudeSapere indino ali, elder, taking the stand now in the australian hearings.. he's talking about interaction with disfellowshipped persons.. watch it live: .
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.
-aude..
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konceptual99
Just dipped into the feed. The elder is getting ripped to shreds. Rabbit in the headlights. I bet he never thought he would up in front of a RC when he was "made up"...
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Speculation ( not theory ) on child abuse inquiries.
by DATA-DOG inmost of you, like me, keep yourself informed as to what's happening in jw-land.
like me, you make it your business to know what's going on.
so i'm wondering why the wtbts is allowing eldubs to appear in these inquiries in australia??
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konceptual99
In the UK there is another factor that comes into play. Each congregation is a charity which is legally represented by it's trustees. The trustees are always the current body of elders.
Any potential liability in a case of child abuse falls on the trustees of the charity - i.e. the elders. In the event of a Charity Commission investigation into a congregation then the WTS can do nothing to prevent the congregation trustees being held to account - it's charity law. Of course, the WTS also has entities with charitable status and these too can be implicated.
Most elders have zero understanding of the implications of charity law on them. They are forced by WT regulations to go to Bethel yet they still carry the can.
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1,000 sex abuse cases hidden in Australia for 68,000 publishers...what is it worldwide?
by cappytan inthe press is reporting that over 1,000 cases of abuse were hidden from authorities in australia.. australia has around 68,000 publishers.. if you that ratio applied to the u.s. also, there could be over 14,700 cases that were covered up here.. if the ratio held the same worldwide, that would be over 117,600 cases.. just let that sink in a little..
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konceptual99
The NSPCC in the UK have some published estimates for the rates of child abuse in the UK. This covers all types of abuse, not just sexual. According to their website:
There are currently over 50,000 children identified as needing protection from abuse in the UK
Over 62,000 children and young people talked to ChildLine about abuse last year
We estimate that for every child identified as needing protection from abuse, another 8 are suffering abuse
This is in a population of around 64 million. If you are to assume that the congregation is pretty much a reflection of society in general then a very rough calculation of the UK membership (130k) and the worldwide membership (8mil) against the estimated figure above ((50000*8)/64000000) gives around 800 children in the UK and 50000 worldwide as needing protection from abuse now.
To be far to the other posts, this is not exactly comparing apples with apples. This is not purely sexual abuse and there is no real way of knowing so even this type of calculation is hardly scientific but even reducing the numbers by an highly optimistic 90% is chilling.
I think it's clear that the numbers will always be speculative but what the figures from Oz do show is that the problem is not limited to a short period of time and not insignificant. If there is any similar numbers worldwide then the scale of the problem over the decades is frightening.
There has to be a small band of brothers that know the real figures globally and I bet they are absolutely terrified that there is increased publicity on this and what that might mean in terms of legal exposure.
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Another case of information control!
by username ini decided to have a look at jwtalk to see if there might be any news on the australian royal commission investigation into child abuse.
there was a message posted regarding the news.
another case of jws not being able to handle bad news against the mother ship!.
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konceptual99
As per respectful_observer's post It's not been deleted. It's been merged with another existing thread on child abuse. There was another thread that was on a public part of the site last week regarding the BBC Radio 4 and BBC News report that went behind the portcullis as well.
You can tell there are some on the site, whether fifth column or not, who would be happy to discuss problems within the organisation in an open and honest way but there is very, very little room for debate. Any posts that even hint at organisational failure are quickly jumped on and posters either put in their place or even banned.
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London Conventions 2015 - NO TWICKENHAM
by Da.Furious injust got news from a friend that yesterday a letter was read in their congregation announcing new locations for the regional conventions in london.. the main item was no twickenham in 2015.. their congregation is assigned to excel london (need to confirm since he was not 100% sure).
i will update this when i get more information tonight.. .
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konceptual99
Not there myself as it's not our convention but here are some comments from that other site...
first day of uk convention at ecxel.
wonderful program and association.
one apostate causing trouble which the.brothers handled brilliantly... i wont give him anymore publicity than that.... we sang "were Jehovahs witnessess" to cover the foul language.Yeah that silly apostate man trying to get on the platform at the Excel.... Loved how seamlessly the speaker stepped back, the chairman came on, and then invited us all to sing song no 31 'with nice loud voices!' Brilliant first day...the drama, all those videos, the demos and interviews were just amazing. Can't wait for tomorrow!
I too was at the excel today I saw that apostate shouting nasty things and i like the way the bros handled it and singing the song so brilliant also the talks drama were all good.when I left the excel that apostate was still there shouting with the police front of him.
Second day was trouble free as far as I know... The brothers were on high alert . The advice to stay on site is good council as on the first day some of the apostates were approaching some of our young ones that left the hall and making accusations about the congregation. They came back in.
I was paranoid that something might happen during the baptisms but thankfully it didn't .. 58 baptised today -
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How Far Apart Were Your Legs?
by Joe Grundy inseveral threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.
fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.
a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.
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konceptual99
Exactly Joe. Whatever their motives the whole thing is simply patriarchal self-indulgence that takes no account of the feelings of the victim.
Even if you concede that the WTS has the right to set any rules they like for membership and have these enforced through internal procedure there is no excuse for assuming they have some kind of authority and right to question people in this invasive way.
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How Far Apart Were Your Legs?
by Joe Grundy inseveral threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.
fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.
a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.
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konceptual99
See http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/rape-fornication.php for more info.
It seems I am wrong, as recently as 2003 there is still the impression given that screaming is required and that the victim may feel guilty for not resisting more.
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How Far Apart Were Your Legs?
by Joe Grundy inseveral threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.
fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.
a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.
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konceptual99
I am not 100% sure it would have been to determine if penetration had taken place. Don't forget that years back there was the view that if a woman did not scream or take other strong action to try and prevent a sexual assault then she could have essentially consented to sex and it would not be rape.
Given that it seems the BoE (probably on the Branch/CO recommendation) brought in some elders from outside the congregation and they were described as being old, perhaps they were still thinking about this old stance? I wonder if the question was designed to see if the girl had in some way infer consent to sex because she had not resisted enough "scripturally".
Despicable either way.
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How Far Apart Were Your Legs?
by Joe Grundy inseveral threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.
fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.
a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.
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konceptual99
Stan - are there any written instructions from the watchtower society as to how these elders conduct these hearings--? what questions are required ? does any one know ?
Yes, The Shepherd the Flock of God book has the JC process documented. In terms of questioning this is what it has to say:
5. The committee should first seek to establish the facts and ascertain the attitude of the accused. This requires skillful and discreet questions. The judicial committee should be thorough but not inquire about needless details, especially in regard to sexual misconduct. However, in some instances, when Scriptural freedom to divorce and remarry may be an issue, details may need to be clarified. When the elders on the judicial committee feel that they have a clear picture, they may excuse the accused from the room and discuss the case and the individual’s repentance or lack thereof.
This would suggest that the Elders don't need to delve too much into detail. If they do then it's for their own benefit.
There may be more stuff in BoE letters as well.