Posts by konceptual99

17

What the "Worldly" media has to say about the proposed Russian ban of JWs

by NikL in

jw
friends

interesting to read the reports from around the world.

i doubt many jws have read any of them.. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-government-jehovahs-witnesses-extremist-group-lawsuit-supreme-court-a7634671.html.

russian authorities threatened to close jehovah’s witnesses administrative centre last march, when they issued a formal warning to the congregation that the “religious association will be subject to liquidation” if it failed to eliminate within two months the violations identified by the government as “extremist”.

konceptual99

I am 100% with those that are against this ban. The way to handle the destructive aspects of high control religious adherence is not through bulldozing human rights. Of course you can point to the hurt and pain caused by people following practices like shunning and we know that the rhetoric about governments and other religions is adversarial but you are about to see the criminalisation of 150000+ people simply for their beliefs, most of which have zero impact on the community as a whole.

Putin is cracking down on all sorts of minorities and so called undesirables. The government is full of those chomping at the bit to bring back all the worst aspects of Russian life 40 years ago in an effort to maintain their grip on power. Only this weekend they have arrested the opposition leader for protesting about government corruption.

I am more than happy to see the WT leadership brought down a peg or two through the exposure of their hypocritical power plays in the court of law or through things like the ARC.

I have woken up to TTATT but there is no way I would wish to see my wife or friends criminalised overnight. What is happening in Russia however has to be seen in the bigger picture. For those Witnesses in Russia my opinion is that we have to put aside the desire to see the organisation suffer to understand that some fundamental human rights are being attacked in a way that is dangerous to anyone else deemed to be on the wrong side of Russian government opinion.

5

West Coast North American Trip

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

i am planning a trip to the west coast from vancouver down to southern ca and would like to be able to discuss it with some of you guys who know that part of the world.

i would like to do it in private so as not to give things away to anyone snooping so wondering on the best way of having a private group chat.

facebook maybe?.

konceptual99

Hi,

I am planning a trip to the west coast from Vancouver down to southern CA and would like to be able to discuss it with some of you guys who know that part of the world. I would like to do it in private so as not to give things away to anyone snooping so wondering on the best way of having a private group chat. Facebook maybe?

TIA k99

43

Atheism would not appeared if …

by venus in

· if religions were immune to division.

· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.

· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.

konceptual99

The more science provides a rational framework for explaining the world around us, the more theists have to wrap God up in mystical and philosophical nonsense to allow for his existence, impotence and inaction.

6

After the 'Miracle' Chairs Video, What Pointless Tasks have you seen Assigned?

by Slidin Fast in

sheffield 1980s i think.

there was a grassy area that needed mowing to put a collapsible baptismal pool on i think.

there was no mower so they gave a bunch of sisters a pair of scissors each and they went on their knees and snipped away.. only in jehovah's organisation!.

konceptual99

Any time any one has sent any one else out to do preaching work surely...

52

Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request

by wifibandit in

this week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.

if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .

childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.

konceptual99

So, how, konceptual, is it a problem for admitted (by the very fact that they are "repentent" ) child molesters to be excluded from the congregation permanently?
And this doesn't even touch the fact that these admitted, "repentent" child molesters are unreported to the police, and none of those civil protections can be enacted unless the law compels them to.
DFing would be the only protection other congregants could get.

If we were talking about a situation where people are not reported then that is the key issue and it is this that has to stop. In this case I don't care about DFing as it protects nobody in the long run - an allegation has to be investigated by the authorities and appropriate action taken with the individual.

It it were my club then I'd not let a pedo in but the Witnesses (and pretty much any other Christian religion) is very unlikely to ever ever refuse a convicted pedo from ever a being a member. It's not consistent with a teaching of forgivness, redemption etc.

Now we all know that pedos are not the same as someone who as committed some kind of misdemeanour but even if a person was DF'ed then, assuming they have done the time and are being monitored by the state, then why would they never be allowed to be reinstated?

Even if they were DFed for ever more there are still cases where the org may no be able to DF for whatever the reason is, maybe even where the state cannot substantiate an allegation and convict yet there is still reason to be concerned. People may come into contact with the congregation through a number of circumstances that cannot be managed simply by refusing people entry.

This is why a single, clear, publicly available document that identifies all these risks and details appropriate measures to handle them is critical. It's why they need to look beyond the confines of the congregation and understand that their actions (or inaction) have an impact on the community as a whole and they need to engage with the organisations best placed to keep the public as a whole safe from an individual.

This is where the Australia document really falls down.

52

Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request

by wifibandit in

this week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.

if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .

childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.

konceptual99

What about all of the other children in the organization around the world? Why are they handling criminal acts in the first place, as though their unlettered and ordinary men have any business handling such matters? Why do they do as little as possible for their members but demand as much as possible from them?

In this Jehovah sets the precedent. It is he who apparently blesses his people with literature carts, new buildings and animations for the kids but is unwilling to stop people being killed in their thousands, sometimes tens or even hundreds of thousands, through natural disasters.

23

How deep is the rot?

by JeffT in

by now it seems obvious that the gb and other leaders of the wtbs are corrupt.

the pedo scandal and various financial schemes are sustained by either lack of concern or greed at the top.

my question is how far down the food chain does this go?

konceptual99

The vast majority believe. Some will have doubts but whitewash over them. I really don't think any of the GB think it's BS even if they are struggling to come up with anything deep and meaningful. They gave up with that years ago and now it's just fluff - keep people busy so they don't think about it too much.

I don't think there is a deliberate conspiracy to cover up some knowledge it's all rubbish. I do think there is a deliberate policy to grab money and flip property however.

52

Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request

by wifibandit in

this week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.

if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .

childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.

konceptual99

There will be no mention of how they were forced to do this - nor that the 2 witness rule still will make this difficult

The two witness rule applies to what action the elders can take in terms of congregation discipline. I would agree that there are still holes in this policy and it needs to be freely available as a notice board document and downloadable from jw.org but I don't think there is anything in there that restricts the reporting of an allegation to the authorities even in the event the elders cannot act right away due to the two witness rule.

The policy is clear that anyone can report an allegation. Of course it is limited in that there is no compulsion on the part of elders to be proactive in supporting this and I am still worried about the cultural norms of deference to the organisation trumping people's better moral judgement but I do think there is a step in the right direction of there being a separation of religious process and secular process.

52

Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request

by wifibandit in

this week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.

if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .

childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.

konceptual99

Due to the serious and complex nature of the offense, rather than simply taking for granted that the abuser is repentant, I would say that the he or she should at least be required to attend accredited counseling sessions for a period of time. If he or she isn't willing to do that, then they aren't truly repentant.

To be fair there has been endless criticism of their approach that risks keeping it all within the congregation. The whole point is to get the authorities involved asap. If someone is accused of a crime then let the authorities deal with it. There is a strong chance they will end up be forcibly removed from the congregation to a cell. If someone is a convicted pedo and has been through the justice system then the authorities should be monitoring that person in terms of whatever rehab might be possible. The congregation need to then take steps to ensure that person cannot be a position where they could abuse a child.

ln my opinion, the new policy ( and other policies) should be left posted in the Hall and copies should be available to anyone who wants them without having to ask anyone. Members should be encouragement to review the policy(s) from time to time lest new parents or newly converted members be unaware of the past problem.

This of course is very true.

52

Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request

by wifibandit in

this week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.

if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .

childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.

konceptual99

And, dang, did they learn nothing?
Only UNREPENTANT child abusers are disfellowshipped.
Say "sorry" and you're still good to go in the congregation.
Sigh...

Question is what do you really expect them to do? Are you saying that no one could be a Witness if they had been convicted of being a abuser? They are allowed to have jobs, travel, have relationships etc. so why would they be banned from ever being a Witness? They could be DF'ed but are you saying that they could never be reinstated? What about a study that wants to be baptised? Does being a pedo prevent them from being allowed in the hall? I'd love it to be the case but I don't think it's realistic.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the underlying sentiment however it's not DFing someone that keeps children safe. All it's done in the past is push the problem away from being any concern of the WTS. It's not a protection in itself.

What is a protection is someone being reported to and dealt with by the authorities. Congregation sanctions have done very little to protect children. Being arrested by the police has.