konceptual99

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Posts by konceptual99

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  17

  Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  a couple of things first: .

  -nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

  so this brings me to my question.

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  konceptual99

  Thanks for the links DOT. I have already read these and they do paint a picture of typically underhand JW machinations however there are still some details that are not clear to me, specifically the context of the fraud allegation.

  Either the whole episode was a complete fabrication or there were a set of circumstances between Mr. Otuo and the elder that led to the accusation. I don't think there is anything available to allow one to understand this context and why the dispute would have arisen in the first place.

  I completely see why Mr. Otuo would feel he has been treated unfairly, unjustly and even subjected to slander. There is strong circumstantial evidence that he has been the victim of a less than honourable JC process. One cannot assume, however, that that entitles one to the unconditional support of others. People round here would look pretty stupid if they were to actively support Mr. Otuo and then it become apparent that his actions were not honest and above board.
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  22

  Special Talk from the GB?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  a current jw told me there was going to be a special talk (tm) from the governing body(r) next month.

  apart from the usual hilarious jw tv stuff, i haven't heard of anything.. any info any one?

  the jw didn't seem to know much either.

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  konceptual99

  There is special talk from either a GB member or a helper for the UK. It's on a Saturday but congregations can make arrangements to listen to the live stream or a recorded copy later.

  I can't remember the date as I was reading New Scientist on my tablet when they made the announcement a few weeks ago but I think it is later this month or in May.

  I seem to recall they are incorporating the WT study as well so it will be a 3 hour mini assembly in the hall. Prototype, test bed runs for future changes to the assemblies perhaps?
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  15

  What is R&F

  by Drifting Away in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i see the letters r&f often, but i dont know what that stands for..can someone tell me?

  tia

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  konceptual99

  Rank and File.

  Your average Joe Witness without position or privilege.
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  17

  Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  a couple of things first: .

  -nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

  so this brings me to my question.

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  konceptual99

  To be fair WMF, from my reading of the transcripts Mr. Otuo was accused of fraud by the Witness and this accusation was put in writing to the JC committee. Mr. Otuo never was allowed to see this and now the congregation are saying it was destroyed and have testified to that fact. This is an example of the typical procedural nonsense surrounding JW judicial committees.

  The other side of that coin is that I don't recall seeing anything that formally documents the situation between Mr. Otuo and the Witness. AFAIK there is nothing that says there was never a business relationship. Neither is there anything like some kind of contract or agreement. As observers we have no way of knowing what was agreed.

  It's fair to say that Mr. Otuo has not faced criminal charges. It's also fair to say the accusation of fraud seem very loose and typical of how the WT likes to create their own definitions. Regardless, I've not seen anything concrete that takes this out the realm of a business agreement gone wrong. I would be more than happy to support Mr. Otuo if there was some proof that the Witness stood to lose money, Mr Otuo had acted in good faith 100% of the time and that to take the side of the Witness would be a gross injustice.

  I think there is merit in the argument that the DFing does imply Mr. Otuo was in the wrong and does lead to chatter and gossip. For it to be slander the accusation has to be false and I'm not sure that we are seeing enough of both sides of the story to make that judgement call right now.

  I really hope Mr. Otuo is free of any accusation and, if so, can win this battle. All I am asking for is some more clarity on how I can be sure this is the case.
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  17

  Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  a couple of things first: .

  -nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

  so this brings me to my question.

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  konceptual99

  Yes of course I am aware of the court system and how it operates. I am also more than aware of how the elders and the organisation operate kangaroo courts.

  I am not calling Mr. Otuo a liar however why would you expect me to support a guy and even spend time to attend court when the circumstances are not clear.

  Help me out here and post something that succinctly refreshes the story and presents the facts.
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  26

  WTBTS vs. Islam

  by kairos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the articles and meeting parts have been missing something all along, as far as i can see.. jws are taught to demonize all 'worldly' ( not jws) organizations, individuals and religions as having no value only to be destroyed by god at 'harm-you-gettin'-( armageddon ).. why do they not mention islam?no scathing denouncements?.

  the only publication i really remember, was the "mankind's search for god" book that touched on the beliefs and practices of muslims.. why do you think this is the case?.

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  konceptual99

  Which all comes to the same conclusions as far as I can see:

  1 - there are only a small minority of Muslims prepared to actually take a stand against core dogma about things like violence and homosexuality that are exploited by extremists and

  2 - when push come to shove the majority choose to give at least some tacit support to religiously bound ideas on morality and even violent enforcement of Islam rather than be considered as apostates

  "Moderate" Christianity exists only because secularism has become the norm and people don't really care if others want to mix that up with a bit of ritualism on a Sunday. Day to day it makes no difference.

  "Moderate" Jehovah's Witnesses don't really exist because at the end of the day there is only one side of the fence to be on.

  For what I observe, the same applies to "moderate" Islam. The truly secular Muslim who is only doing it for a bit of traditional and meaningless cultural ritualism is seemingly a very rare beast.
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  22

  UK: Would anyone like to attend Frank Otuo's next hearing against the Watchtower? Or send him your support?

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  www.standard.co.uk/news/jehovahs-witness-sues-for-150000-after-church-snubbed-him-over-fraud-claims-9750062.htmlfrank otuo is suing the watchtower for disfellowshipping him and causing the loss of his family and his friends, after being disfellowshipped based on a false accusation of fraud.on friday may 13th 2016, a hearing will take place to decide whether the watchtower's defence will be thrown out.otuo is confident that it will be.

  ;)would anyone like to be there on the day, to see what happens and maybe even report back and tell us what you saw?.

  otuo would like it if some people could be there to cheer him on, as it were.

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  konceptual99

  Whilst this seems like a JW DF setup what evidence is there that the whole thing is a malicious fabrication? Did Mr. Utuo take money that was not his or not? Lack of criminal prosecution or even investigation is not enough as there are many things that happen between two parties that are never handled in a criminal way but when examined demonstrate actions that are hard to support.
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  17

  Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  a couple of things first: .

  -nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

  so this brings me to my question.

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  konceptual99

  I think we yet have to see the evidence that Mr. Otuo has been falsely accused and genuinely wronged beyond the tiresome he said/she tennis match and the usual procedural nonsense that surrounds many JW DF cases.
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  33

  Where and What. . . IS THE EVIDENCE for "Mental ILLNESS"? ? ?

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have no interest whatsoever in stirring up controversy.. in fact, i find clashes of opinion to be debilitatingly negative.. so, i'd simply like to request that we narrow this discussion to evidence.. please watch this video which is tantalizingly titled :.

  "there's no such thing as mental illness".. consider this data and listen to the presentation of cause vs. effects and give me your analysis and any evidence for conclusions you may draw.

  we all have anecdotal tendencies, but i should remind you, anecdotal testimony isn't evidence, only opinion.________________________________________.

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  konceptual99

  The number of people diagnosed with mental illness has gone up because we've stopped calling people witches or demon possessed and pushed on from simply locking people up in institutions en-mass.

  True, some of the treatments are crude. I've seen first hand the impact of electric shock treatment. Drugs often manage rather than cure but that is true of other treatments such as radio and chemotherapy for cancer.

  Challenging the status quo is always needed but throwing pseudo-science around as if it's some magic cure is at best a waste of time, at worst positively dangerous.
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  24

  The Jehovah’s Witness bagged themselves a Big One when they got Professor Raj Kalaria, to speak about his belief

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  uk scientist helps christian cult to promote creationism.

  the jehovah’s witness bagged themselves a big one when they got professor raj kalaria, above, to speak about his belief in creationism in a new video posted online by the cult.. keralia is currently a deputy director of the newcastle centre for brain ageing and vitality, newcastle, and a professor of neuropathology at newcastle university, uk.. when ex-jehovah’s witness lloyd evans, who runs jwsurvey, discovered that an april 2016 jw broadcasting episode featured keralia, he decided to:.

  reach out to newcastle university to find out whether it endorses the academic’s stance on evolution, and found myself in a rather frustrating email exchange with helen rae, the media relations manager at the university’s faculty of medical sciences .. after much to-ing and fro-ing, an official statement was finally forthcoming ….

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  konceptual99

  What is incredibly frustrating about content like this is that there is zero detail on exactly what it was that changed the minds of these people. What aspect of their research demonstrated to them that the majority view was flawed and the creation narrative had merit? Have they found something that debunked the debunked or have they simply fallen into the same traps countless others have?

  I respect the view that perhaps some things could be perceived to be too complex to evolve and that one may not accept the hypothesis or theories associated with that specific subject. The question you have to ask, however, is how that individual subject fits in with the rest of the narrative. If that one small aspect of science causes you to consider an intelligent designer then what are the implications? How does that fit with the rest of science? How does it fit with what one observes about humanity? Are you going to believe in some fairly nebulous concept of an intelligent designer with little influence now or are you going to conclude that there is a God who genuinely cares about people and is about to prove it by killing billions of them so a limited few can cuddle lions?

  I really want to know what the slam dunk proof that evolution is completely wrong is. I really want to know why it's not plastered all over the JW.ORG website as a massive middle finger to entire scientific community. It might be the one thing that reverses my complete loss of faith and belief.