Posts by konceptual99

37

An elder bought my son a suit

by Clambake in

i guess being two months old and coming to the kh in his onesee was kind of offensive .

how rude of me.

i am thinking about returning to him.

A little musical interlude....

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

a little classic and very apt electronica/rock from chicago's finest - tortoise - for those wee hours of a sunday with a dram or two.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktpalghjfsi.

konceptual99

A little classic and very apt electronica/rock from Chicago's finest - Tortoise - for those wee hours of a Sunday with a dram or two...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTpAlGhjfSI

27

Missed the Meeting

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

so yesterday was a lovely day where i live and so instead of going to the meeting we went, as a family, out for the late pm/early evening to have a bbq.

we were far more relaxed than if we had gone to the meeting.

we spent far more time talking that if we had gone to the meeting.

TBH CC not much has changed other than less activity on my part. I am working myself up to telling my wife I simply don't believe it anymore but it's difficult finding the right words and time. I have to do it at some point - the kids are growing and slowly getting absorbed into the JW mindset. I have given up hoping my wife will wake up herself just through my cynicism so I have to raise the bar.

50

Coordinator of Elders Problems in One Southern England Circuit!

by The Searcher in

information just passed to me.

let's hope this becomes even more widespread.

i wonder if the britain branch suspects a conspiracy?

konceptual99

Let me guess, they sold it to someone else without any concern for their safety. This kinda reminds me of the ARC accusation that elders send known pedophiles into the community without any regard for other children in the neighborhood.

It's not been sold or even on the market as yet. The locals are waiting for the LDC to come back and say what they are going to do.

The property is in a very desirable area but has issues due to the age, current usage designation, grade 2 listed status and potential problems with the hillside. I am 100% sure they will sell but it's whether they sell as is to a developer, do remedial works or even do a full conversion to a residential property(ies).

There are lots of other properties in the street and so this question of the state of the hill side would supposedly apply to at least some of the others. It's not been raised as a community problem so there is some scepticism amongst the local congregation of the actual level of risk. Without independent verification there is nothing the congregation can do. Any sale to a developer would require full due diligence on the part of the purchaser of course.

The problem for the LDC is that if they have overblown the risk of landslip/rock fall and independent surveys debunk this then the locals will be miffed and simply want to return to the hall. On top of that, the longer they leave it the more it is simply a maintenance nightmare and the pressure will be there for the congregation simply to return and stuff the LDC.

20

Verify the Audit Checklist/Destruction of Files!

by Atlantis in

several people have asked if the audit checklist boe/destruction of files/ can be verified.

atlantis said that if the previous information was not enough evidence, then i should send you the boe letter where the watchtower admits to sending out the annual audit inspection checklist.. .. write these down:.

.please see: page 2, number 5. please see: last paragraph on page 3.. please see: page 4 annual audit of files.

konceptual99

UK elders are not specifically required to destroy or keep anything by law.

Any data they keep has to comply to the Data Protection Act about how it is obtained, for what purpose and how long it is kept for. An individual can make an information request at any time to see the data held about them The recent audit letter and the letter posed by WiFiBandit above demonstrate that the WTS is very prescriptive in ensuring the minimum data is kept, for (I repeat) two key reasons:

1 - to prevent elders keeping data that either does not comply with the DPA or data that could be used in a civil case by someone wishing to bring a case against a congregation on the basis of information held about them.

2 - to keep to a minimum data that could be used by the authorities against the organisation.

Point 1 is because elders are often idiots and careless about what they write down and keep hold of.

Point 2 is because the WTS has a persecution complex and imagines they are going to be oppressed at some point.

It's a matter of opinion but asking elders to audit their records against the published benchmarks is, in my view, not quite the same as getting them to destroy evidence or cover things up. If they have no legal obligation to hold the data then they cannot be accused of destroying evidence. When it comes to child abuse the processes are clear about what should be held. This is so some measure of "due diligence" and "duty of care" can be demonstrated rather than adherence to any legal obligation is concerned.

They can, however, be asked to explain how such instructions really tally with an open, transparent and progressive organisation, especially when it comes to child abuse. The instructions can be compared with other organisations to illustrate the predictably huge gap between the WTS' claims of being leaders in child abuse management and the reality of what is best practice in the vast majority of similar organisations.

50

Coordinator of Elders Problems in One Southern England Circuit!

by The Searcher in

information just passed to me.

let's hope this becomes even more widespread.

i wonder if the britain branch suspects a conspiracy?

konceptual99

Portishead was disbanded for several reasons. Historically it had split from Clevedon congregation but over time attendances dropped and it was full of older people. A couple of younger families did move across from Clevedon but it's been one of the those old, parochial places for some time.

Clevedon and Portishead continued to share a hall in Clevedon, a old Victorian building which backed right onto a hillside. The building is listed which means you have to get lots of approvals to do anything to it. Of course, each year that goes by means it needs more maintenance work.

Clevedon and Portishead congregations have been looking for a new hall for years. The main problem has been that the Clevedon congregation wanted to keep the hall within Clevedon and not have to travel. All the sites that came up had planning problems because they were on a flood plain. During this time the Bethel were slowly taking more and more control of hall planning tasks and saying to the congregation they needed to look elsewhere.

At some point earlier this year the Bethel pulled rank. They sent the RBC (as was) round and surveyed the hall. They said that the hall was not really safe to use due to the risk of a rock fall and other maintenance issues. They sent Clevedon to Weston which already has 3 congregations meeting at a hall. Portishead were sent to another hall but then told that as of the new service year they would be disbanded. Portishead congregation members were sent to three congregations depending on where they lived.

Clevedon has basically been told to await the LDC's guidance on what will happen with the hall. They have been warned not to do anything themselves otherwise the LDC will drop them and they will be on their own. They cannot even verify with independent surveyors what the real state of their old hall is. On the one hand this has wound the locals up something chronic since going 10 mins down the road is a big PITA for them and they don't like being backed into a corner by Bethel. On the other hand the hall is a money pit and the high level argument for the way Bethel are spinning it makes sense, but one does get the impression that the LDC are taking advantage of a set of circumstances to get shot of a desirable building and get the cash without having to go to the trouble of building another hall. Of course, Clevedon & Portishead have been saving for years for a new hall and AFAIK all the cash they had on hand has already been scooped up by Bethel in the last funding round.

50

Coordinator of Elders Problems in One Southern England Circuit!

by The Searcher in

information just passed to me.

let's hope this becomes even more widespread.

i wonder if the britain branch suspects a conspiracy?

konceptual99

Little update - 100% certain this is the Bristol area. The related saga in this area is the disbanding of the Portishead congregation and the closure of the hall they shared with Clevedon. It's typical local congregation v Bethel politics but is a bone of contention for the locals and has meant a drop in attendance as people vote with their feet and baulk at supporting the org's new arrangements for them.

40

WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?

by DarioKehl in

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.

hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.

massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..

konceptual99

As much as it irks me to say this, suggesting there is evidence admissible in court that is being destroyed or that an audit instruction is actually a mass cover up is over egging the pudding.

If the elders were destroying paperwork that they were required to keep by law (e.g. financial information related to records required by the Charities Act) then this would be something that may result in court action.

Take a more pertinent example however - an allegation of child abuse. There are no records that the elders are required to keep by law. What is the evidence that is being destroyed? There may be questions asked about the position & actions of the elder and the organisation but in itself I am not aware that any criminal act would have been committed. What could cause a criminal problem is if an elder lied under oath, perhaps denying an allegation had been made. A criminal investigation could also occur if the authorities thought there was a systematic cover up of known abuse to protect individuals or the organisation. Another potentially criminal act would be for an elder to destroy real evidence of a crime (e.g. some photos). The elders in the UK are not under any mandatory reporting legislation therefore there is nothing they are required to do or keep hold of that would constitute a breach of such legislation were they to fail to act or keep certain documentation.

The fundamental intent of the WTS in it's instructions to UK elders is two fold. Firstly, it is to keep the amount and type of information held about individuals to an absolute minimum, especially where some kind of judicial matter is concerned. They do not want individuals making data access requests, getting hold of the musings and opinions of elders and then using that in a civil case against the congregation.

Secondly they want to keep any data that may be used in a situation such as the Royal Commission to an absolute administrative minimum. So, for example, a "known" child abuser would have sufficient information held to indicate to the authorities a measure of due diligence but not enough that would give an alleged abuser an opportunity to bring some case against the congregation.

The important factor here is the motivation behind what information the elders are asked to keep and how they are asked to store it. They don't want some ill considered comments in a document written by a dunder headed elder coming back to bite them on the arse. There could full well be wider implications should something like a Commission or Tax Enquiry take an interest and this will be in the WTS' minds.

I would love to know what the latest instructions are to the elders on record keeping as it is this that will betray the real methods that the WTS is using to cover it's arse for every eventuality.

40

WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?

by DarioKehl in

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.

hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.

massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..

konceptual99

Sorry Freddo - I took about an hour between starting my post and finishing it. You have hit the nail on the head.

40

WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?

by DarioKehl in

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.

hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.

massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..

konceptual99

Once again, this type of instruction has been made to UK BoEs in the past in order to, at least on the surface, ensure compliance with the DPA. There may, of course, be a reason other than purely the passage of time for a written instruction now.

The real story, if indeed there is one, is in the detail of the instructions on what should be recorded and how.