with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?
i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.
how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.
smiddy - The ARC into child sexual abuse case 54 ,they need to be made aware that the 2 witness rule is not a 2000 year old scriptual requirement but actually a 4000 year old law given by Moses Deut.17:6
The archaic Mosaic law was repeated in the New Testament as applicable to Christians. This occured 2000 years ago. It's right in their with the Christain law about shaving the head of a woman who speaks up in the congregation without authority.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/inside-the-jehovahs-witnesses-a-perfect-storm-for-abuse-20170309-guukur.html .
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2017/03/10/jehovah-s-witnesses-to-face-abuse-inquiry.html .
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/03/10/03/31/uniting-church-witnesses-focus-of-inquiry .
Repost of an above link at the page reference changed.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-10/uniting-church-in-australia-apologises-to-victims/8344496
with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?
i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.
how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.
The "faithful and discreet slave" cannot provide two witnesses that they were appointed by jehovah in 1919. Not one single member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses can provide two witnesses that they were anointed by jehovah. Yet collectively and individually they insist on the two witness rule to establish all things.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/inside-the-jehovahs-witnesses-a-perfect-storm-for-abuse-20170309-guukur.html .
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2017/03/10/jehovah-s-witnesses-to-face-abuse-inquiry.html .
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/03/10/03/31/uniting-church-witnesses-focus-of-inquiry .
March 10, 2017
"They love bomb you. They sell you this vision of a perfect community. It is anything but. It's indoctrination. It's a cult, it really is. But they convince you it's a religion."
The Jehovah's Witness church and its overarching body, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, came to the attention of the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Sexual Abuse with a 2015 case study hearing more than 1000 allegations of paedophilia had been made against the organisation over 60 years yet not one complaint was reported to police.
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Another former member, Lara Kaput, describes the Jehovah's Witnesses as "cruel".
Ms Kaput, 44, was raised in a Jehovah's Witness family in Victoria where close contact with people outside the church was discouraged, women were taught to obey men and the teachings of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society were unquestioned.
She left the Jehovah's Witnesses when she was 19 and was shunned by the community. Over the past 25 years she's had only sporadic contact with family members who are still involved in the church.
"You are ostracised from your entire family and friend network," she said. "Prior to (leaving) they incorporated me as a regular family member. After that I was dead to them."
Ms Kaput has launched a campaign on change.org to have charity regulator, the Australian Charities and Not-For-Profits Commission, investigate the organisation.
"This is not an organisation which should have charitable status," she said.
Nor is it a safe organisation for children, the royal commission determined when it handed down its findings into the institution last year.
Shine Lawyers principal Lisa Flynn specialises in institutional sexual abuse and describes the culture of Jehovah's Witness church as deeply problematic.
"The Jehovah's Witnesses have many practices and policies which create a perfect storm for child abuse," she said.
Ms Flynn describes the organisation as "controlling, insular and isolating".
"Anyone who complains faces the risk of being shunned and isolated from their families and friends and the way of life they have known," she said. "That makes people very reluctant to report abuse."
And those who do report face hurdles such as the "two witness rule" which requires two eye witnesses to an allegation, having to confront the alleged abuser and giving evidence to a panel of male elders.
"It's often the case that no action is taken," she said. "That leads to a climate where a perpetrator is free to go off and continue perpetrating."
what is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?
i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.
also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).
OrphanCrow - They don't even have a clue as to how to properly reference and source material. They just did like they always do - they threw some sort of obscure, barely related source material down at the bottom of the page and hoped nobody would follow it up. And, when they were called out on their dumb reference, they offered some dumb excuse. But they can't admit that they are just stupid and don't know correct referencing styles and formats.
Don't be fooled by Watchtower's strategy. They knew it was a short hearing and they merely tried to run down the time. Their strategy failed. Did you notice that every single time the Watchtower was caught out on a dumb reference, or some unrelated out-of-date reference, they had a reply already prepared. Spinks and O'Brien already had the answer to the error and mumbled on for as long a possible. Neither Spinks nor O'Brien needed to use the Ringtail to review the reference under discussion. This is no coincidence. They knew the answer because they had rehearsed.
Watchtower merely presented in their statements, submissions and letters as a string of red herrings. They wanted the ARC to focus on these red herrings. The ARC was not fooled but gave them enough rope.
In my opinion, the ARC deliberately gave Watchtower what they wanted with a good dose of heavy condemnation thrown in. What was the Watchtower trying to hide? Methinks the ARC knew and let the Watchtower do what they wanted. There was something Watchtower wanted from the ARC, namely specific feedback and approval on a certain matter, and they never got it. Watchtower failed to get this and now they have no clear direction in what to do. Watchtower have painted themselves into a corner and misjudged the situation.
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
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Fisherman, out of respect for the personal beliefs of others, including yourself, I have always tried to remain neutral in relation to comments that forum members make. For this reason I try never to comment against other people's personal viewpoints. But you sir, or madam, are a complete utter dickhead. Your rebuttals and arguments contain almost nothing but fallacies and twisted half-truths. Take for example your straw man comment as quoted below...
Fisherman That is true, US case law shows that the Courts have ruled that there is no fiduciary relationship between the watchtower and its members.
US case law, and the courts, have never heard a case between Watchtower and its members. Name one case. (The dispute between Rutherford and members of Watch Tower Pennsylvania board, starting in 1916, was primarily based on Russell's will and whether the WT board had been properly elected. It did not involve Watchtower New York or other JW legal entities.)
Do you understand the difference between a member of Watchtower, who incidently has voting rights, and an agent or representative of Watchtower? Under law, and in all circumstances, there exists a legal relationship between a registered corporation and its members.
Fisherman, maybe it's time for you to fish or cut bait. At the least please drop the fallacies and stop dropping the burley.
source: https://abusostj.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/nota-de-prensa-el-defensor-del-pueblo-requiere-a-la-fiscalia-general-del-estado-que-actue-sobre-los-abusos-sexuales-en-la-confesion-testigos-de-jehova/.
barcelona, march 8, 2017. the ombudsman requires the attorney general's office to act on sexual abuses within jehovah's witnesses.. the #abusostj project was born in barcelona in october 2016. it is a project promoted by different victims of sexual abuse within jehovah's witnesses.
several media and national newspapers collected several months ago different testimonies of this type of abuses and how the religious group has silenced other cases.. on december 15, 2016, several jehovah's witnesses who were victims of abuse have requested protection from the government.
sp74bb - great effort in getting this information covered by so many media outlets. I have been following this with great interest.
The Watchtower of Britain were right in wanting to having nothing to do with this when the governing body tried to have them take over the legal management and liability. I do feel sorry for Watchtower of Germany for taking control, albeit under the orders of the governing body. This raises the question of why did the lawyers from the Watchtower headquarters in the USA wipe their hands clean?
I believe that the planned withdrawal of Britain from the EU has had an effect on this as the European Association of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses is really a political lobbying arm of Watchtower Britain.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/inside-the-jehovahs-witnesses-a-perfect-storm-for-abuse-20170309-guukur.html .
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2017/03/10/jehovah-s-witnesses-to-face-abuse-inquiry.html .
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/03/10/03/31/uniting-church-witnesses-focus-of-inquiry .
downloads available:.
download opening address by angus stewart qc - word doc.
download opening address by angus stewart qc - pdf.
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
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The credibility and reputation of the entire religion of Jehovah's Witnesses now rests in the hands of Terrence O'Brien and Rodney Spinks. Interestingly there will be the required "two witnesses" to testify to a matter, and both appearing at the same time sitting next to each other. If one lies and the other remains silent then the JWs are no longer credible.
Neither O'Brien nor Spinks have the authority to go it on their own on behalf of Watchtower or the JWs, nor against the instructions of the GB. They must "listen, obey and be blessed." This is their final chance to apologize. What have the GB instructed them to say and do?
