Posts by jeremiah18:5-10

12

Does WTS want the goverments to turn on them?

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

considering that the wts has long held the view that the "wild beast" would turn on and destroy false religion and that "gog of magog" would attack "god's people", does wts want and in fact hope that their radical views and rigid/unyielding practices will incur the wrath of governments and courts?.

any adverse judgments are going to be spun as fulfillment of prophecy and be used to further pull the ranks together.

any victories are viewed as gods blessing.. it seems they are desperate at times to manipulate the governments into turning on religion, including their own.

jeremiah18:5-10

Considering that the WTS has long held the view that the "wild beast" would turn on and destroy false religion and that "gog of magog" would attack "God's people", does WTS want and in fact hope that their radical views and rigid/unyielding practices will incur the wrath of governments and courts?

This would seem to be a win-win for them. Any adverse judgments are going to be spun as fulfillment of prophecy and be used to further pull the ranks together. Any victories are viewed as Gods blessing.

It seems they are desperate at times to manipulate the governments into turning on religion, including their own.

Thoughts?

20

Outsourcing of printing?

by Lynnie in

i heard through the grapevine this weekend that my second cousin and her husband made a trip to india to investigate possible outsourcing of printed docs for the wtbts.

he is a uber bethelite in the purchasing dept and my cousin is a good bethelite wife.

they were living in brooklyn but have been moved up to wallkill in the last few months.

jeremiah18:5-10

It wouldn't surprise me if they started emailing pdf's of study articles, ltboe and invitations, etc to the coboe with instructions to print as needed. They could just put all else on their website and require publishers to print for themselves as needed and to simply direct interested people to the website for further info. Thus they would totally eliminate any need for printing facilities. At the same time they could and would continue to ask for and require donations for technology upgrades artwork etc. They shhep are so programmed to donate they probably would never recognize the difference and would just keep on giving.

Oops guess I should've read all posts above before posting. Sorry for the repeat. Punk hit my same thought.

8

JW Bombshell Seeds

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

though it is true that one conversation or one jw bombshell will unlikely rock a member from the cult, we are all here as a result of leaving or realising the lies we were fed, doubtless all the bombshells we heard or considered contributed to us leaving.. there seems to be a lot of apathy here at the moment that facts and information are not enough to convince a jw of the lies in watchtower.. this is not true.

even if one missile does not bring down the wall, it contributes to its fall.. information empowers people, it is the most valuble asset in the war on cults.

it may not sink the boat immediatly, but we know it springs leaks.

jeremiah18:5-10

Many years ago in the mid-90's as a regular pioneer and ms, I studied with a college student that was majoring in philosophy and a minor in the world's religions (or something like that). His thesis was on the history of the beliefs of jws. I foolishly thought that even if not sincere in his efforts, I could help him see the "truth". Only after leaving have I come to appreciate the impact this guy had on me and teaching me critical thinking skills. One occasion in particular stands out as an epiphany. I had the P.O's son, a regular pioneer also, on the study with me. This brother read a quote regarding the trinity, a major topic of our discussions, directly from the reasoning book as if it were the final authority. I remember himm saying, "see it says it right there, what else do you need?". I was so embarrassed by that, because by that time I realized that this student wouldn't just accept what WT said as fact, something all of us did accept. I was very uncomfortable and so embarrassed as I watched the student just smile and shake his head. I look back on that day now as the first crack in the facade. It changed my entire approach to my ministry and my talks. I never again relied on statements from WT as proof. It seriously affected my confidence in teaching and I never felt very comfortable dealing with topics like the trinity again.

Its funny how lost I felt as the student refused to study from a publication. We had to just use the bible. I'm so thankful now for the things he taught me, that frankly I hardly realized and certainly didn't appreciate at the time. I was 100% defeated by him.

So planting seeds of doubt are effective but may take time to mature. It took me 20 years.

22

But, they're so HAPPY!

by stillin in

you can't deny it.

smiling and brimming with good cheer.

is it sort of like the person who buys a lemon of a car and won't admit it?

jeremiah18:5-10

What's the saying? "Ignorance is bliss". That's JW's in a nutshell.

35

Do you blame Jehovah, Yahweh, God, Jesus, etc. for the corruption of the borg?

by Fading Begins in

jw
friends

do you hold god accountable for the corruption of the borg?

i've noticed there seems to be a bitterness, by some, that includes "god" in the equation, when discussing the borg and their policies, the governing body, elders actions, etc.

do the borg's transgressions originate with god, or does he feel the same disgust as we do?

jeremiah18:5-10

Once believers become an organization, there's structure. Once there's structure, there's power and authority. Once there's power and authority in a human organization there's corruption. Christianity was set up to be a personal relationship between the believer and God thru Jesus as the one mediator with the help of holy spirit. It never was supposed to be an "organization" as such, God ended that arrangement with the Christ. Now he looks for individuals and evaluates individually. Each person has to take responsibility and action for themselves and each must possess faith for themself. Such faith is uniquely individual in nature while based on Gods Word and his son Jesus. That's the only necessary unifying factor. There's no need for a religious administration or organization. The only purpose served by such is to elevate oneself and to exert power and authority over its followers. Ray Franz expresses such in his book In Search of Christian Freedom. I take a similar position because it makes perfect sense for me, as I still accept the Bible as Gods Word and I still believe there is a God and I also believe in Jesus. To each his own in that regard.

19

Anointed Witnesses - is this a credible site ??

by *lost* in

jw
friends

how do i incorporate text to my post guys ??

can't copy and paste.. anyway digging around jwn searching for info on anointed and came across link to this web page.

so i'm assuming it's the wt org.

jeremiah18:5-10

What do you mean by credible? I've read several articles on it and the weekly letters to the GB. They do not appear to be a fraudulent site setup by wtbts. They call the wts out on many topics, specifically the earthly hope and 144000 doctrine. I suggest you read for yourself and decide credibility rather than basing your opinions on the opinions of others. Afterall isn't that the beauty of no longer being trapped in a cult? Just because you read info from other sites doesn't make you a follower or adherent of that site or its writers. I for one enjoy reading info from a wide range of different viewpoints now since I never enjoyed such a privilege while stuck in the wts. Use your own critical thinking skills. While that site isn't anything special, and there's really no such thing as a group with the exclusive rights on the "truth", there are at least some different and refreshing scriptural reasonings in their articles that can help you to open your mind and look at some scriptures and topics differently. Actually that's one of the appealing facets of this site, JWN, the wide range of views and open nature of discussion. If you do read some of their articles I would enjoy reading your thoughts, either for or against.

32

Jehovahs Witnesses An Organization?

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

jehovahs witnesses an organization?.

today i added a new article to my blog addressing a particularly dirty trick played on jehovahs witnesses.

it has to do with watchtowers legal maneuvering to place and keep its harsh religious shunning practice beyond reach of secular law enforcement.

jeremiah18:5-10

Sincere question: if as TD comments, the relationship is basically between individual and their congregation, not parent organization, then would being df just apply to that congregation? Why would other congregations need a letter of introduction or enforce a decision made by another? Couldn't you just start over? Of course we all know you can't because you're on file with the branch, therefore the relationship is with the parent organization and any and all past decisions follow you. Again they want it both ways.

2

tyydyy (TimB) is my cousin

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

jw
friends

this morning searching thru some old threads i came across my cousin.

i was extremely excited.

i was especially touched by his threads on finding his brother, my cousin, donnie.

jeremiah18:5-10

This morning searching thru some old threads I came across my cousin. I was extremely excited. I was especially touched by his threads on finding his brother, my cousin, Donnie. I was saddened though to see his last post was 7 years ago. One of his last post activity had to do with apologizing for some comments and requesting not to be banned. I Am curios if he was banned. I've not been in contact with him for 10+ years. Our entire family is fractured and splintered by jw's and exjw's. I so desperately want to reconnect with family like him. I hope he at least lurks still and sees this. If so, Tim I miss you and love you please reach out to me as I have no contact info for you.

TerryB.

68

POLL: How long did you remain a JW from point of baptism to leaving the KH

by Terry in

jw
friends

i was baptised --1963. left in 1978. fifteen years.

pre-baptism, another 5 years.

jeremiah18:5-10

Born in, baptized in 1987 at 15, Df'd in 2008 at 37= 22 years

37

Fictious "Universal Sovereignty" Issue Proposed By Watchtower Corporation Is Idiotic

by frankiespeakin in

ok so a big part of the wt corporation ideological structure is the invention of the issue before all creation being "universal sovereignty".. the story goes like this very basically:.

for untold years jehovah's soverneignty was never challenged, then after so many millions of years jehovahs started his earthly creation with adam&eve being the culmination of that work.

soon afterwards satan seduces eve to disobey jehovah and thus we have the very first act of disobedience satan slanders god by telling eve god is selfish as to the reason he forbids eating this other wise nice looking fruit adam joins his wife in the rebellion.. god in his infinite wisdom allows this rebellion because this was a challenge to his sovereingty and so he is allowing a reasonable amount of time to let mankind and angels see for themselves that his rulership is better that satan's.. so basically it is like a bet he has with satan or who's rulership is best, and he's allowing time to prove his is far superior.. well if you look at it logically it don't add up.. 1. if god is going to allow satan to prove his point about who's rulership is better why is he alway interfereing and interveining that's unfair.. 2. god goes on killing sprees of people man women and chilldren (not very smart for some trying to prove his rulership is better for people to follow.. 3. god show himself to be jealous (not a good trait for a ruler to endear himself to people).. 4. god's scare people to except his ruler ship.. and i have even more reason to show the whole idea is a made up sham..

jeremiah18:5-10

If the issue of universal sovereignty is real, Satan's rule versus God's rule, and we all have to choose, there is a big advantage for Satan.

As imperfect humans, we are pre-disposed to sin. To say we have a choice or anywhere close to the same choice as perfect beings is ludicrous.

Your inclination is to sin (rebel). How can that be a fair opportunity? The sin is held against you, its not overlooked. You are then faced with the choice of keep sinning and die or submit to God and he will forgive you and heal you. Again is sin a choice? Are you choosing to be imperfect? Emphatically the answer is no.

There isn't any logical or fair way to settle such an issue, its not a level playing field. To gamble with the lives of living thinking feeling beings is disgusting. How could such an act endear either to a person. The picture paints us as nothing but pawns or poker chips in a celestial poker game in which one (God) can change the rules as often and in whatever way he wishes.

I can't buy in to the universal sovereignty issue as being legit.