Posts by TheWonderofYou

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

TheWonderofYou

Simon:

...the personal choice comes in...

I agree that it depends much on the personal character, education, willigness to except other cultures and tolerance. The more information and dialog happens the better will be the personal choice, the personal hehave towards one who is disassociated, excommunicated or has other opinons.

The change will happen bottom up.

A big public interest about happenings in a minor religion cant be awaited. Who is interested in the social shunning that happens in the american Amish-cult?

So I think that it is the busines of those who suffered to highlight the sad consequences of shunning to the Organisation's leaders.

- Working together with humanitarian initatives and so getting stronger awareness of the matters like the human rights to have family ties even after a excommuncation case.

- Speaking about the News articles (Psychology today, Jamaica...., copying and sending to the congregations), this could stimulate a change.

- Partaking at scientific studies of international humanitarian organisations.

The only reason that shunning is powerful is because people hand over that power and right to choose.

I would compare that power with the power of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the power of thoughs said High Officer for Human Rights, Prince Zeid

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

TheWonderofYou

Dont forget that in some countries JW are statutory bodies and you can e.g. marry in the kingdomhall... this would mean that the ministers than are state respresentatives like as marriage registars in italy and have high responsibility for the flock.

7

NO.1 2016 Watchtower - up online

by Gayle in

jw
friends

why be honest?.

TheWonderofYou

Perhaps the writing committe encourages the GB-members to speak honestly about the problems that are facing our religion to its members and hope that they read the No. 1 issue at least.

7

NO.1 2016 Watchtower - up online

by Gayle in

jw
friends

why be honest?.

TheWonderofYou

The Honesty from a WT viewpoint does not include

- financial reports about itself to the donating members

- or giving the name of the bible translators NWT

- or who are the writers of the WT articles.

- no info about child abous court cases and ARC

- or honestly apologies

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

TheWonderofYou

Are elders in the congregation in the same duty as teachers...do they have the office of a supervisory agency?

If we think that they try to receive the status as pastoral care privilege (pastoral confidentiality) like catolic priests have. Does the "shepherd the flock" book give advice comparable to a supervisory agency according to the law? A supervisory agency over christians?

Can you imagine the procedure of in a judicial committee?

1. the pastoral care with confidential talks- legally privilege

2. the social shunning - legally privilege?

The perfect world.

Then: If social shunning or discrimination is not a state law ...than a "law-abiding" religion should not have such things in its constitution.

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

TheWonderofYou

Sparrowdown

Is not a Christian religion of love morally ethically responsible for its members too? As grouo... or is it propaganda, a chimera.. are the innocent only catched and trapped to be socially abused?

If an instituition is a legal institution according to country law the ministers are to a certain extent of course responsible for the welfare of the members and not allowed to destroy the social integrity of a person or use social shunning rituals that harm the local community. Good shrepard.....Like the teachers for the pupils are responsible

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

TheWonderofYou

JW shunning considered "Social shunning" vs. Mental shunning"of individuals.... the world knows it!

Part 2

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-time-cure/201303/shunning-the-ultimate-rejection-part-ii

The loving arrangement under fire,

At the moment i think that any form of shunning is a lack of love, what means that we are not always able to be good 100 percent, its lately our mistake too out fear or because the group wants to show who is the dominat bull and we play the game or because a person or a group doesnt really want to approach a person, other culture, boring person, problematic person, dangerous person,, better be cautious and withdraw the love.

What are the rules for the congregation?

Jesus said in cases 12/10, the paragraph of the human rights, that some persons in the congregation will be difficult cases, but love has no limit, its only your fear that limits you, to approach others 77 times.

Did you ever visit a former bro in a jail? Must be difficult. He wouldnt be your best friend, but not shunning him that would be nearly 99/100 love level.I think that only a pope would do such a thing. An average christian would not be so good. It would say.. i warned him..now i wash my hands in innocence...shall others help him, try to chance him.. for me this guy is ultimately lost.

Now I think of jws who go to jails and have bible studies......then they dont judge these criminals..speaking about love and repentance ...

...but why are the same elders judges in J/Cs and withdrawing love in minor cases that dont end in jail....and make ultimative shunning decisions .and avoiding ultimate devisions if abuse is obviously ? Okay thats another subject

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

TheWonderofYou

Interesting psychology today about shunning and bullying ..evolution

JWshunning considered "Social shunning" vs." Mental rejection"

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-time-cure/201302/shunning-the-ultimate-rejection

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-time-cure/201303/shunning-the-ultimate-rejection-part-ii

I have a thought and perhaps it will be acknowledged...

Shunning as loving arrangement is done to bring someone back to the flock, let us look on the evolutionary reasons.

225

Cult or Religion

by Richard C B in

what is a cult and what is a religion?

its open to debate.

who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

TheWonderofYou

Somebody already wrote in an other thread example for mindcontrol:

Behavior Control

Information Control

Thought Control

Emotional Control

Links

1: Steve Hassan's criteria for mind control

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/25532/jehovahs-witnesses-cult

2. A Study of the Persuasion Techniques Used by Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/544/persuasion-techniques-used-jws

3. written by Jang: Social Psychology And Group Dynamics

Cognitive Dissonance and again about Hassan.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5822/social-psychology-group-dynamics

4. Combatting Mind controll with WT references

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/112308/combatting-mind-control-steve-hassan-wt-references

5) High Control Groups

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/14262/fyi-understanding-high-control-groups-better

18

Shunning legal since 1987

by TheWonderofYou in

legality[edit].

in june 1987, the united states court of appeals for the 9th circuit upheld the witnesses' right to shun those who fail to live by the group's standards and doctrines, upholding the ruling of a lower court, finding that "shunning is a practice engaged in by jehovah's witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, and we are not free to reinterpret that text ... the defendants are entitled to the free exercise of their religious beliefs ... the members of the church [she] decided to abandon have concluded that they no longer want to associate with her.

we hold that they are free to make that choice."[99][100].

TheWonderofYou

I was baptized as teenager. I had no idea that the subject DF shunning could violate human rights then.

If it would be only a public announcment like:

Case 1 "Brother X decided to seize his publisher service but he will remain unactive fellow-believer... / the reasons are private, (we would not public announce the reasons whether he doest believe in 1914 or in Armagedon or has a girlfriend) we will respect him now as good friend, because he is a very sincere and respectable person like his whole family, but he quits his service for private reasons and we will treat him with brotherly love, charity and loving neighbourship like all men"

this would be public ending of a special servie and would not be a mobbing.

Case 2: "Brother X decided to seize his service and we hope that he further remains our fellow believer. We respect his achievments in our congregation and love his family. We will always show love, charity and loving neigbhourship to him and his family."

again public but lovingly. No ending of family bonds anymore! How wonderful that TTaT would be.

Even if the bible uses the word "shun" this

would not mean that JW should use the whole "caliber" of shunning techniques that are available, neither in writing nor in reality.

And many witnesses in reality already dont follow this rigid rules. They are greating me and smile to me even. really, because they know that I am a good fellow, always was and always would be! The older elders try to convert me a second time, thats typical and I find it funny.

____

I think the laywers at the court think of the "little shunning", but not of the "grand shunning pratices" that JW use, therefore they think it would not contradict human rights.

Its a lack of information about the real cruel of shunning in the cult.