TheWonderofYou

Joined

• started 102 topics
• posted 1,447 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by TheWonderofYou

• 
  154

  How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

  by jam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

  "cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

  "lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  Two addtional links for theologians here:
  
  1) This links is a catolic information side mentioning even Jehovahs witnesses in the beginnin:

  http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-hell-there-is

  Overview and important Pope says

  In his 1994 book, “Crossing the Threshold of Hope”, Pope John Paul II wrote that too often "preachers, catechists, teachers . . . no longer have the courage to preach the threat of hell" (p. 183).

  Concerning the reality of hell, the pope says, "In point of fact, the ancient councils rejected the theory . . . according to which the world would be regenerated after destruction, and every creature would be saved; a theory which abolished hell. . . . [T]he words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel he speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Matt. 25:46). [But] who will these be? The Church has never made any pronouncement in this regard" (pp. 185–6).]]

  This book is in my bookshelf and I find it very interesting. I found it in a church for free.

  2) this is a link to the online catolic catechism in the vatican library:
  about the classical traditional school theology, the classic dogma about

  1) particular judgment
  2) heaven'
  3) final purification
  4) hell
  5) last judgment
  6) hte hope of a new heaven and a new earth
  7) in brief and
  8)Amen

  http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm
• 
  154

  How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

  by jam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

  "cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

  "lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  Dear LisaRose

  1) you wrote: Really? An eternity of pain?
  
  The dogmas of the church are only approximations too, the theologians and historians have to explain who the pain came into the hell.

  The church can only follow Jesus Christ and what we have received in the scriptures. The modern teachers say that Jesus words are merely warnings of the consequences of loosing gods friendship, loosing gods mercy and love, by choise and free will, to constantly black-hearted denial of gods loving hands, by choosing deliberatly a way of wilfully sinning maybe.

  Reading the bible we often meet Jesus saysings and phrases or figure of speeches in parabels that indicate severe consequences of going the broad way. I remember at the moment the words "the broad way into destruction" or "eternal fire" or "gehenna" or "jugement day" or "eternal judgment", "baest and goasts" and even the "poor lazarus and the rich man" and "certainly Armageddon too.

  All these phrases are only giving emphazise to the subject of seriousness , but there is not a literal fire or a literal punishment or any pain in Jesus words (i read about his matter in abook of Pope Benedikt)

  Jesus used evidently the common phrases and that were used by the normal people in Judea at that time and not aloofed words or complicated theology.
  He spoke this sayings mostly to uneducated people. So all the saysing of judgment day an so on where already common known in the Jewish community.
  There were the apocalytic sects, Essens..., and reform movements, something like the great awakeing in the 19th centeruy in america, perhaps jesus even had contact with Essens, and John the baptist was a pupil of them, because many words in the new testament have been found in the sciriputers of the essens. Why i am saying this? Because the sayings of the apocalyptic sects where well known like the preaching work of Jehovas witnesses today John said "repent and get batized in the jordan": Maybe Jesus even put up and overtook most of Essens sayings, and so it came into the Bible too. The saysing have it source in a completety other religious and social and educational background as today.

  2. You wrote: yet some believe that God will do this for eternity, because a person was born in the wrong country, so worshipped another God, or chose the wrong flavor of Christianity or simply didn't find the evidence for God compelling or believable.

  I am preparing an answer.

  Greetings
• 
  154

  How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

  by jam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

  "cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

  "lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  TWOY i will study your wise informations, give me time , english is not my mother language and

  it is not so easy at all to speak about this matter in general.
• 
  154

  How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

  by jam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

  "cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

  "lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  Sorry:

  For me, only since my contact with JW the matter of hell became an issue. As you know anyway the majority of catolics and protestants in our country, the dogma of the hell is not picked up as central theme, nor taught in any religious education at school. Furthermore before teenis get confirmed with 14, they attend a confirmation class and get the catolic catechism for young people “YOUCAT”,published 2011 as a gift ( http://www.youcat.org/youcat/what-is-youcat/the-most-important/) and then children may read the book for themself. But there is no duty anymore to learn the answers by heart. So my child is 14 now and I am educating her catolic, I asked her she never heard the word “hell” before. The catolic education is not in all countries the same i think. There are countries which are more conservative. So people here do not think about hell-stuff at all their whole life. So the whole matter has become an issue for theologians and those who want to go deeper into the issue only. (JW use it for propaganda against the church).

  In the YOUCAT you find question 161 (translated by me):What is the hell? The short answer:
  Hell is the state of eternal separateness of God, the absolute absence of love.
• 
  154

  How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

  by jam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

  "cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

  "lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  For me, only since my contact with JW the matter of hell became an issue. As you know anyway the majority of catolics and protestants in our country, the dogma of the hell is not picked up as central they attend a confirmation class and get the catolic catechism for young people “YOUCAT”,published 2011 as a gift ( http://www.youcat.org/youcat/what-is-youcat/the-most-important/) and then children may retheme, nor taught in any religious education at school. Furthermore before teenis get confirmed with 14, ad the book for themself. But there is no duty anymore to learn the answers by heart. So my child is 14 now and I am educating her catolic, I asked her she never heard the word “hell” before. The catolic education is not in all countries the same i think. There are countries which are more conservative. So people here do not think about hell-stuff at all their whole life. So the whole matter has become an issue for theologians and those who want to go deeper into the issue only. (JW use it for propaganda against the churches).

  In the YOUCAT you find question 161 (translated by me):What is the hell? The short answer:
  Hell is the state of eternal separateness of God, the absolute absence of love.
• 
  154

  How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

  by jam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.

  "cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.

  "lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  I actually believe in "The hell" and "the eternal fire", not solely because it sounds better then the "Armageddon" and not because even the New Word Translation uses the word "eternal fire" in the Gospels and the whole christian scriptures, but because Lord Jesus said it:

  Matthew 18:8 (NWT 2013 Rev.): If, then, your hand or your foot makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you.+It is better for you to enter into life maimed or lame than to be thrown with two hands or two feet into the everlasting fire.

  Matthew 25:41: “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me,+ you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire+ prepared for the Devil and his angels. (NWT 2013 Rev.)

  Jude 7 (NWT 2013) " In the same manner, Sod′om and Go·mor′rah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality* and pursued unnatural fleshly desires;+ they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.

  Later more....
  when will the armageddong teaching (a heresy) again replaced by the good old hell fire?

  It has been the original christian teaching since Jesus Christ,

  It is part of my catolic creed.

  I believe in it.

  I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.
• 
  46

  Doesn't the ARMAGEDDON teaching foster a MORBID view of the future?

  by Black Man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  even when i was dyed-in-the-wool j-dub, i felt the armageddon teaching was one of the most morbid concepts to be hammered into the psyches of jws.

  think about it, only jws would survive this catastrophe, which translates to roughly .001 percent of the population would survive while everyone else would die a horrible death.

  that includes people who do good things and are good people, but are just not jws.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  I always tried to beautify the horrible bad news of Gods Armageddon when I was yet a silent lamb. I began to think really "indepently":
  "Should not Christians overemphazise developping a communion with God without Armageddon fear?"
  
  A year ago I met a witness mother (she speaks always with me, because I know her since age 13) : she tries to avoid the study articles
  about armageddon because her daughters are very afraid of that matter. Sadly.

  No matter how cruel the texting of the Watchtower study articles might by or how horrible the WT Cover might be
  our mind has been manipulated to construct always sophisticated answers or excuses for all bad and unchristian=unmerciful Armageddon stuff
  "But somehow People have to be awakened, Wonderofyou, wouldn't you agree?"

  The latest invention is the argument that Armageddon is not a war of men but by God (as this would be better).

  But does the end justifies the means really, you sheperds?
• 
  30

  JW.Orgy......let's come up with slogans

  by AndDontCallMeShirley in

  1. social
  2. humour

  here are a couple suggestions for slogans:.

  missionary positions available".. 2.

  where jesus isn't the only one coming for a second time".. .. add yours to the list.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  Or JW.org+
• 
  30

  JW.Orgy......let's come up with slogans

  by AndDontCallMeShirley in

  1. social
  2. humour

  here are a couple suggestions for slogans:.

  missionary positions available".. 2.

  where jesus isn't the only one coming for a second time".. .. add yours to the list.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  What's in fact better than "Read Gods Word Daily"? - JW.orgX
• 
  2

  Just drinking a coffee and thinking of Gerrit Lösch's truth and new JW.org

  by TheWonderofYou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1982 "kingdom truth" br gerrit losch held the special main talk about truth.. i was fascinated by his emotional kind of speeking and i even recorded the public talk on my cassette tape recorder.. i liked the emotional attitude, i listented to the talk over and over again.

  i liked the mass enthusiasm about bible passages and.

  applying the texts to this organisation.

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  My artswork was only a limited gift for my closest mates , am not in contact since primary school. Today i will watch cannonization of the 2 popes by our 2 present po popes