Posts by Sanchy

59

Cognitive Dissonace on full display at JWtalk over evolution research

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

a user over on the jwtalk forum recently shared a warning over his research on evolution in preparation for an assigned talk.

after detailing a couple of the tidbits that he learned of during his research, he went on to say:.

this i found to be useful especially when talking ot others in the ministry.. but and it is a big but.....

Sanchy

Here are some of the responses thus far:

From ScholarJW: The beauty of our publications especially those that deal with Evolution is the simplicity of the argument and its presentation and that is what you need in good science is that it should and must be Simple-easily understood by the 'man/woman' in the street. Most if not all modern-day textbooks on Evolution abound with complex mathematics/statistics designed to prove Evolution and mystify the laymen.

So science needs to be easily understood or else it isn't true?

The OP responded: I have had similar feelings in my long past when trying to reason from the scriptures with a Seventh Day Adventist. My inexperience led me and a fellow young pioneer, to exhaust our fund of scriptures only to realise later (after that empty feeling of frustration) that he was never going to be reasonable and accept the scriptures alone. Those feeling are not nice.

Ironic coming from someone that just confessed that he is "never going to be reasonable and accept" the evidence for evolution.

EccentricM wrote: He (Darwin) made the huge assumption adaptations lead to macro species changes and then made the guess that all things came from one cell and each species along the way birthed the other. When later fossil research was done, they found layers, and could piece together the order of apperance of life, but no mid-species transitions were ever found, only full species. As such they made the erronous claim that "certain species were the missing links"(?) despite having no evidence that was even the case, but said it was anyway.
Later with genetics they found.. oh, all life shares DNA, and so they say "aha, that confirms it, it's all true". What they did not consider is that we are all simply made.. from the same materials, hence, DNA (ingrediants) being the same, but no "lineage" like in direct human ancestry has ever been detected or studied.
If you bring up the current state of "statis of evolution" as well as living fossils as an argument, they shall say "not all life forms evolve if they don’t need to, hence why we have “living fossils”, life forms that have not changed at all for billions of years, and we have many of them". This idea I think seems to contradict evolution. Why? Because something does not change if it does not need to, it only adapts to it’s needs to survive.

So… why evolve in the first place? Was the first micro-organism in danger? Could it not survive in the sea by staying at it was? Evolving means to adapt and change in accordance to one’s enviroment, but if all life came from a single cell, which includes said enviroment, that means there was nothing to adapt or respond to in the first place, which should incur stasis.

Pjdriver wrote: how does something with no intelligent maker make extremely complex changes because it “needs” to? Who told it it needs to? How does it know it needs to?

Anyone wanna take a stab at answering?

59

Cognitive Dissonace on full display at JWtalk over evolution research

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

a user over on the jwtalk forum recently shared a warning over his research on evolution in preparation for an assigned talk.

after detailing a couple of the tidbits that he learned of during his research, he went on to say:.

this i found to be useful especially when talking ot others in the ministry.. but and it is a big but.....

Don't you know that you can sprinkle divine magic over any ordinarily impossible biblical event and it conveniently becomes possible? The story might still be incredibly silly, making out God to be irrational, primitive, foolish, inefficient, violent, cruel (ex the flood), but nevertheless, it's all possible.

59

Cognitive Dissonace on full display at JWtalk over evolution research

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

a user over on the jwtalk forum recently shared a warning over his research on evolution in preparation for an assigned talk.

after detailing a couple of the tidbits that he learned of during his research, he went on to say:.

this i found to be useful especially when talking ot others in the ministry.. but and it is a big but.....

Sanchy

A user over on the JWTalk forum recently shared a warning over his research on evolution in preparation for an assigned talk. After detailing a couple of the tidbits that he learned of during his research, he went on to say:

This I found to be useful especially when talking ot others in the ministry.. BUT and it is a big BUT.....

I found the encyclopedic amount of information on the different types of theory to be bewildering and depressing. All this effort to explain something from a wrong view point - there is no creator and you have to force an explanation of theory/theories.

I have learned one thing though that looking material outside of the organisation's material can be double edged.. If you read it enough you 'could' become convinced that the impossible can be explained or so depressing that you feel for the 'victims' of it. In my case i found it depressing.. I will not bother looking into this kind of thing again, not because I have doubts about our creator:

(Revelation 4:11) 11 “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

But that it really left me feeling flat. I am guessing also that any deeper research of things we know is run by Satan is going to give you similar feelings. I found it to be too dangerous for me. I won't do it again, on this or any other peripheral ideology.

Following some proper prayer I feel a lot better and more settled now. I have been warned.

So now you know. If you run across some evidence for a belief contradicting your own, make sure to follow up with some "proper prayer" and it should take care of that pesky CD.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Sanchy

Reminds me — how many people said the earth was the center of the universe? Nearly all contemporary scientists? They had “proof” too; the Sun moved and the earth did not appear to be moving.

Ironic coming from someone that still believes in biblical fairy tales.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Sanchy

Here were your exact words:

So as far as a “legitimate” request is concerned, it’s illegitimate to request an independent investigation based on the words of former members.

So, "obviously" you claim that because it comes from former members, it would be an illegitimate request on WT. In reality, this is the crux of the reason why you and WT leaders are so reluctant to give any credibility to RV. They are exJWs... to give them any credibility would be unthinkable.. Jehoober would never allow that.

Again, facts ARE NOT determined by popular vote.

A straw-man that adds nothing to your argument. Your obsession with only accepting "facts" from a "court of law" is strange and deflective. Before anything goes to court there needs to be an investigation. That's what we would have here.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Sanchy

oh, right. It was a request based on the words of former members, so it could never be legitimate. God forbid (pun intended) a "mentally diseased" apostate have any legitimacy. ....

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Sanchy

The principle Jesus taught, that of being willing to carry out legitimate requests, is valid not only for governmental requirements but also in everyday human relations. It may be, for instance, that a person with authority over you asks you to do something that you would prefer not to do but that is not contrary to God’s law [...]The solution? Do as Jesus recommended—go the second mile. Do not only what is asked of you but even more than what is asked. Do it willingly.

Doubter, read, then re-read your own religious leader's words.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Sanchy

You know, I though you had "said your piece" like 20 comments ago.
You are now going around in circles like a broken record just throwing out random statements that have no bearing on the arguments of this case. First you argue on the small number of victims RV recruited, then you argue that RV should send these victims to authorities, and now your latest argument is that RV is "only voicing their opinion".

So what? In this case, their "opinion" carries the weight of actual victims that can testify, these are not just "people" as you refer to. Their "opinion" carries arguments against WT policies that have been shown to be sound and true from historical accounts in their home country and elsewhere.
You can call RV's claims an opinion, but it adds nothing to your arguments in favor of WT. Again, you have nothing.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Sanchy

Anders comments were clear and can be summed up as:
RV doesn’t agree with how jws execute their policies.
Thats fine. That’s their opinion. And that’s basically the gist of their position.

Anders comments were in response to your claim that RV should be held accountable for supposedly withholding their list of accusations from the authorities and you ignored all his arguments and deflected with a nonsensical rant about opinions and catholic comparisons.

BTW, its not that RV doesn't agree with how JWs execute their policies, it's that RV believes the policies are inadequate to begin with, and they has a list of victims that can testify to that point. Other investigations around the world have agreed with RV and it's what this inquiry would look into.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Sanchy

It’s clearly evident that RV has made up their own version of JW policies and are knocking down their own strawhouse

No, it is NOT "clearly evident" that Rv has made up their own version of JW policies. Did you even read Ander's comments?

And you’ve made it aboundantly clear that this whole fisaco is really about RVs subjective interpretation of JW policies.

"Abundantly clear"?? Did you take writing lessons from Watchtower? None of what Anders said about RV shows it having a "subjective interpretation of JW policies". Watchower policies on child abuse are readily available for any who want to look for it.

Since JWs disagree with RV and are the drafters of their own policies, they actually ARE the final authority on its application, intent, and interpretation

So what? The application, intent and interpretation of previous and current JW policy on child abuse have been shown to be lacking and inadequate in safeguarding JW children from child abusers

The Catholic Church just had almost 400 priests, a Cardlnal, and Bishop just in Washington, Philly, Chile and Australia alone resign because they were pedophiles. We are not talking lay people here — this is leadership and high ranking leadership.
That’s impunity. Find me 400 circuit overseers or elders in the entire history of Jws that were serial pedophiles.

Just over a decade ago you could not find even 100 catholic priests charged for being serial pedophiles. What changed? Public scrutiny broke through cover-ups and barriers set up by the religion's leadership and shed light on what was actually happening. In the case of JWs, public scrutiny is revealing of the extent of the problem, and not only in numbers of abusers, but in the way the religion handled accusations it was aware of among it's ranks.

You've got nothing Doubter. Why don't you go write an Opposers Dismythed article