Posts by kepler

16

Attention Lurkers... Monday, October 1, 2012 is the 98th anniversary of Jesus' rulership!!!

by Calebs Airplane in

attention lurkers... monday, october 1, 2012 is the 98th anniversary of jesus' rulership!i'll just let the watchtower magazine speak for itself...october 1, 1914, on taking his place at the breakfast table in the brooklyn bethel dining-room, he in a strong voice denoting conviction announced: the gentile times have ended!

-watchtower july 15 1950 page 216 pargraph 1 those seven appointed times of the nations ended in the early autumn of 1914, about october 1. before then the good news of the established kingdom could not be preached.

-watchtower october 15 1955 page 623 paragraph 7october 1, 1914, is now more than forty-two years ago and the kingdoms fight at armageddon is fast nearing.

kepler

And, oh yeah....

How many invisible events do you see in this picture?

16

Attention Lurkers... Monday, October 1, 2012 is the 98th anniversary of Jesus' rulership!!!

by Calebs Airplane in

attention lurkers... monday, october 1, 2012 is the 98th anniversary of jesus' rulership!i'll just let the watchtower magazine speak for itself...october 1, 1914, on taking his place at the breakfast table in the brooklyn bethel dining-room, he in a strong voice denoting conviction announced: the gentile times have ended!

-watchtower july 15 1950 page 216 pargraph 1 those seven appointed times of the nations ended in the early autumn of 1914, about october 1. before then the good news of the established kingdom could not be preached.

-watchtower october 15 1955 page 623 paragraph 7october 1, 1914, is now more than forty-two years ago and the kingdoms fight at armageddon is fast nearing.

kepler

Would have missed the date shift, had it not been commented on. But I think I have an explanation.

In Crisis of Conscience (which I do not have right in front of me at this moment to give whose specific suggestion it was), Ray Franz related a Plan B solution to the generation problem. Owing to the growing concern in Brooklyn that nothing was happening in the 1970s, it was suggested to reset the stop watches to October 4th, 1957 - the launch of Sputnik.

How long plans were in preparation? Well, the shift in Russell's "most important date in history" might give an indication.

Extra Credit Problems:

Originally no provision was given for longitudinal time zones or Greenwich Mean Time. Is October 4/5 a provision for this?

Or does this hedge address Asian regions closer to the international date line?

How many other historical coincidences do you see in your history book with a century method of chronicling 365 days a year?

40

I posted Cedars vid on Gerrit, higher education and OCD on my real jw friend's facebook pages . Greetings from Norway to GB and Gerrit! Love from Healthworker

by Healthworker in

jc on the way!

story to be continued!.

kepler

Healthworker,

Wherever you are, I find myself somehow involved in your confrontation, having added to this discussion - and perhaps egging you on.

I have always been out and never been in, but this organization's reach has had a devastating effect on my life anyway. So bear both factors in mind in what I say or provide from here on. You are the best judge of your situation and where you want to head from there.

About the videos, as far as I can tell, about the only things derisive about them are needle scratch noises. The real damages to the Org are done by the speaker himself. If you are to undergo a judicial conference, it sounds to me that it is largely as a result of showing this man's views for all the world to see.

You just might need those words in printed form.

I took the liberty to transcribe the text from the videos. My views on them I have already stated elsewhere. You needn't convey them unless they are suitable supplement to your own.

Here are the transcripts. Hope this helps. I suggest you read them aloud when you are asked if you have anything to say.

Whether you do so or not, you have my best wishes for your future.

Gerrit Loesch on Higher Education

Gerrit Loesch (from the Italian):

Going to university or not can be a reflection of your faith - or lack of faith - and it may indicate how present the imminence of the Great Tribulation is in your mind. What is undoubtable is that the time left is reduced.

As Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7:29.

If your are currently going to university, why don't you meditate in prayer on the possibility of dropping out and doing something better?

But for us, who scrutinize the meaning of world events in the light of Bible prophecy, there are more worthy reasons for not putting a worldly career first in our lives. We could liken ourselves to someone who sees a building with a sign that reads, "This company is running out of business." Would you apply for a job there? Of course not. And if we were working for such a company, we would wisely look for a job elsewhere. Well, on all the institutions of this world lies a sign reading: "imminent liquidation". The end is near. Yes, the Bible assures us that the world is passing away. Therefore we will be wise and will not imitate those who are an integral part of it.

Now you have listened to advice. What will you do now?

Some advocate going to university by citing the example of some elders who are attending college or that did so [ in the past]. We are not able, nor willing to tell you what you should do. Your parents and you should make the decision . We are not the masters over your faith. However, the Faithful and Discrete Slave has the responsibility to warn against spiritual dangers and to encourage, to place the Kingdom interests first. So the Slave discourages from going to college for a long period of time.

I have often heard experiences of individuals who were about to complete their college programs and who dropped out when they learned The Truth. Some other baptized individuals have turned down scholarships. What will you do? What decisions will you make? Will you refuse or not? Will you get a university education or not? You will be responsible to Jehovah for this.

We would like to praise those in the audience who dropped out of college when they accepted The Truth [as we praise] all those who after listening to this talk , will make the same decision. Maybe you still want to advocate the possibility of going to college. You may say: :You see, Brother X went to college and now he is serving in the congregation and is also a pioneer."

True, he may have survived university, so to speak. But what follows is a true experience of a young man who suffered from a compulsive disorder which caused him to wash his hands over and over again, even 100 times a day. This disorder discouraged him so much that one day he decided to commit suicide. He bought a rifle, put it into his mouth and pulled the trigger.

The bullet, however, didn't kill him, but instead perforated the part of his brain that was responsible for the compulsive disorder. He survived and after that managed to live a normal life.

Yes, it's true. He survived. But would you recommend that other people imitate what that young man did? [applause]

Similarly, some have survived college, but would you recommend that to others?

Instead of investing in a higher educaion, it would be advisable to grow in knowledge of Jehovah. In order to start knowing the Bible better, we must read the Bible every day. Every day. Are we doing that?

----

Gerrit Loesch – English Version - Higher Education and OCD

Well generally speaking, what effect has the conviction that the Great Tribulation is near… do others see that we really believe it? It is not wrong to have money. It is not wrong to be rich. But not at the expense of spiritual things. Otherwise, you know, we would be like the man in the parable of Jesus in Luke 12:21 that eventually died. And Jesus said, “So it goes with someone that is accumulating riches but is not rich toward God”… That’s the key, to be rich toward God. To that end we really wanna be balanced in as to what we wanna pursue in this system of things so shortly before the Great Tribulation.

In one study 200,000 in the US… 200,000 university students in 390 institutions were surveyed. And the result was that 71% admitted that they go to college for money that they hope to earn after they finish, see? So most of the college students go for that reason, to have a higher living standard. Some go for the fame, but most go for the money. Sometimes the children wouldn’t even go, but the parents push them to go. They want to be able to say, “My son is a doctor”.

So is this really the thing to pursue this side of Armageddon? Now some have good motives. If they do, we will not judge them. It’s a personal decision. Some pioneer throughout college and they have good motives. But we have lost really too many to the world already, and it is kind of a danger.

This reminds me of an experience that was mentioned in our literature about a young man that had a compulsory behavior. He was always forced like to wash his hands many, many, times a day. He just couldn’t stop doing that. He hated himself so much for it that finally he decided to kill himself. He bought himself a gun and he pulled the trigger. And, er, the bullet went through his head, but he survived.

And some went to college and survived.

Now this young man survived and the bullet had hit this part of the brain that was responsible for his compulsory behavior. After he recovered he was normal. So, the question is: Yes he survived coll[ege] in that case we can supply it to college. He survived that operation, the bullet operation.

But would we recommend that to others? That’s a different matter.

-----------

Gerrit Loesch TEXT on Extermination:

...Every eye, all mankind, billions of eyes will figuratively see him. They will see Jesus coming as an executioner. They will realize that what's coming upon them (the destruction) is not just the result of some natural disaster. They will realize that this was what was prophesied by Jehovah's people to come upon them.

... Now what will happen in Armageddon? Well the Bible says that there will be a greater part of mankind will be killed. And, er, it will be very dramatic. Prophecies in the book of, er, Jeremiah, prophesy about that. And in other Bible books as well. And, er, Jeremiah says that the dead will be from one end of the Earth to the other end of the Earth. Or if we look at, er, Zechariah, the prophecy, at chapter 14, and verse, er, 12... it says there...

"And this what will prove to be the scourge with which Jehovah will scourge all the peoples that will actually do..." [he's smiling] military service against Jerusalem," but now in prophecy this refers [??] to heavenly Jerusalem where we find the Messianic Kingdom. And it says - and it's scary:"There will be a rotting away of one's flesh, while one is standing upon one's feet;.and one's very eyes will rot away in their sockets, and one's very tongue will rot away in one's mouth."

Possibly having a figurative fulfillment, but also very possibly having a literal fulfillment. And Jehovah perhaps is gonna use radiation to cause this phenomena [sic] that er, people's flesh will rot away as they are standing on their feet. It will be a destruction as mankind has never seen before.

When Armageddon will happen, after that it will be a time for liberation for God's people. Not only the destruction of enemies, but liberation and relief in many ways. But there will also be a lot of work to do. Because we have mentioned in Armageddon, billions of people will die and they will have to be buried. The Bible indicates in the prophecy that there will be groups of people, of brothers and sisters, that will for a long time do nothing else than just bury the dead.

And then what else? At some time in the future the wonderful thing about the resurrection will start. The resurrection of our dear loved ones. And how are we looking forward to receiving back our parents, our grandparents, siblings, children...

147

Conti update article: "Watchtower Loses Conti Appeal - But Fights On"

by cedars in

i've published a new article on my blog explaining where things are up to with the candace conti case.. as well as detailing the latest developments, i also summarize the events since june and reveal some of kathleen conti's thoughts on what's in store for the watchtower.. here is the link:.

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/watchtower-loses-conti-appeal-but-fights-on.

as always, if you can think of a way that the article can be improved, i would love to hear feedback!.

kepler

Band on the Run,

Good to hear from you again! A belated welcome back.

As you are aware from some "sidebars", share your interest in this topic. And thanks for picking it up again here as well.

I would also like to add that this "oath of allegiance" issue crops up elsewhere. When some elders used to come to my house instructing me from the pamphlet "What the Bible Really Teaches" and I would page through it and earlier assertions that the Anglo-American alliance was the two headed beast of Revelation, I began to wonder why this career civil servant was telling me this?

Even for a temporary post like census taker, swearing in with an oath to protect and defend the US constitution is required. I presume the gentleman who was lecturing me (and ignoring all the textual elephants in the room ) had sworn his oath earlier in life, but had just had about completed his career. I wonder how common this is?

147

Conti update article: "Watchtower Loses Conti Appeal - But Fights On"

by cedars in

i've published a new article on my blog explaining where things are up to with the candace conti case.. as well as detailing the latest developments, i also summarize the events since june and reveal some of kathleen conti's thoughts on what's in store for the watchtower.. here is the link:.

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/watchtower-loses-conti-appeal-but-fights-on.

as always, if you can think of a way that the article can be improved, i would love to hear feedback!.

kepler

LisaB, BlindNoMore,

Thanks. Interesting.

So now that part of the legal supply line is taken care of ( JW students in pre-law university programs followed by law school), how does the Org address the problem of taking an oath to practice at the bar, defending the Constitution of the United States and the State in which they practice? Has this requirement withered away like the passport requirement? Or is something else afoot?

K.

147

Conti update article: "Watchtower Loses Conti Appeal - But Fights On"

by cedars in

i've published a new article on my blog explaining where things are up to with the candace conti case.. as well as detailing the latest developments, i also summarize the events since june and reveal some of kathleen conti's thoughts on what's in store for the watchtower.. here is the link:.

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/watchtower-loses-conti-appeal-but-fights-on.

as always, if you can think of a way that the article can be improved, i would love to hear feedback!.

kepler

140001,

Interesting analysis of the appeal process and the obstacles.

Now, given that a bond of $17,000.000 has been posted, what sort of war chest would be necessary to conduct a follow-up appeal to higher court or courts with a firm like Jackson Lewis? Something of the same order or significantly less?

In posting the bond, I am not sure I understand how the monies are allocated. Is this to cover all those parties who were judged with fines or punitive damages or just the WTS itself?

There was some speculation that the assets of the NY Corporations would be frozen until such time as the bond was posted. That suggests that the fees are being paid by assets already accrued by the WTS. But in some manner these costs will ultimately be passed on to the JW community as well. If we limit the analysis to the American congregations of roughly 1 million members ( a community about the size, coincidentally of a Roman Catholic archdiocese) , this action would cost $17.00 per head. More likely the community is made up of households of two or three members ( $34 or $51 per household). Moreover, in CA and AZ in late spring there was an out of court settlement involving five other parties... That would adjust the distributed costs higher.

This might be out of date, but my old 1980s Funk & Wagnalis encyclopedia in its short article on "attorney" gives this description in its second paragraph:

" An attorney at law is an officer of the court and as such is required, in the U.S. to take an oath of office binding him to the Federal Constitution and the constitution of the States wherein he resides. Usually a preliminary examination in general scholarship is required, followed by a clerking or apprenticeship, varying from one to two years, in the office of a practicing attorney, and the study of law at a law school, or in some States, under a practicing attorney. Finally, the applicant must pass an examination before he is admitted to the bar..."

As can be seen from other forum topic discussions, being a JW attorney poses several doctrinal problems. The GB members preach against prolonged university study and to become a practicing attorney the law student must eventually take an oath. Some research indicates that the WTS law staff includes staff members who became attorneys before they became JWs - or it would appear. Ms. Carolyn Wah would be an example, since she has proudly cited her Catholic parochial school education elsewhere - suggesting a career route: don't be a born in, especially if you are a woman. But this also means that the WTS is hostage to market forces if they really want the representation required.

So there is an additional hidden cost to posting a bond.

56

Rutherford's love letter to Hitler

by irondork in

has anyone ever thought to send a copy of rutherford's letter to hitler & declaration of facts to the holocaust museum in washington, d.c.?

they have and entire section dedicated to the jehovah's witness in that museum.

i would hate for tourists to visit the museum and not get the whole story.. i would also assume there are jw displays at other holocaust museums around the world.

kepler

One of the places I found the Declaration was in the JW 1934 Yearbook. I found it on line.

The Yearbook back then gave detailed breakdowns of activities country by country, when it could spare ink from ranting about Armageddon, Satan, his organization, popes, Jesuits, etc. On page 127 there begins a report about activity in Germany. And on page 131, after some introduction, appears the text to the Declaration of Facts, continuing to page 143. After entry of the Declaration of Facts with all its condemnation of the US government and identifying its ruling oligarchies, the 1934 Yearbook notes:

"Since then negotiations have been in progress between the Society’s representative, the Department of

State at Washington, and the German Government in Berlin. The result is that early in October this year

the German Government entered an order for the release of all of the Society’s property and turned it

back into possession of our representatives; but the order forbidding the activities of the Society is still

in force, and this is a violation of the treaty between the two governments regarding religious liberty, and

negotiations are still in progress to get these restrictions removed.

"Many of the brethren throughout Germany have been arrested and thrown into concentration camps, and they have been in great difficulties We are certain, however, that the Lord has permitted this for a purpose, and Jehovah’s witnesses in Germany are not discouraged. They well know that they are engaged in the work of Jehovah and whatsoever is his will will come to pass. Whether the work is done in Germany or not we are not able to say. We will wait on the Lord, watch for his leadings, and act accordingly.

"The zeal and earnestness of Jehovah’s witnesses throughout Germany during the time that they were permitted to engage actively in the work has shown a marked increase, and the results show that they did a splendid service. This report for Germany embraces about six months of the year.

"The reports received at the Magdeburg office up to the time that the work was suspended, the mail seized and all work stopped, show the distribution of books and booklets m Germany as follows: bound books, 490,333, and booklets, 4,661,583. Over the same period of time this was a decided increase over last year. During that brief period of witnessing testimonies were given to the number of 10,735,571, as against 13, 788,796 for the whole year 1932. …"

12

Space Shuttle Endeavour Today

by titch in

so, is there anyone in the l.a. basin area who saw the space shuttle endeavour and its nasa boeing747 transport, as it made its way over southern california today?

or, for that matter, anywhere over california?

i saw it, from the parking lot of a hotel, directly across the street from disneyland, as it crossed over disneyland.

kepler

Leolaia,

That's funny. Your Endeavour with 747 images point leftward; mine point right.

I went back in the files and found the ones from 20 years ago (spring '92 - I think) when the Endeavour was headed out from Downey and stopped by then too. Back then the lower black carbon-carbon tiles still had a "cotton-ball glass shine". No scuff. The main photo difference after 25 ascents and re-entries.

59

Pursuing higher education is comparable with having OCD - according to Gerrit Losch

by cedars in

after i posted my last "getting to know you" video where gerrit losch explains his "unique" views on armageddon, a couple of posters mentioned that other similarly controversial comments had been made by gerrit concerning higher education.. well, these comments were actually made in the same recording as the one i used in making the "armageddon" video, so i thought i should make the second video focussing on these.. here it is.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b7drwti-h4.

i realize many heavily indoctrinated publishers will try to defend these remarks by saying that, if it isn't in the society's publications, then gerrit losch's personal opinion is of no particular consequence.

however, the bible says that "out of the heart's abundance the mouth speaks", so by making these videos i hope i am at least showing people what is in the hearts of the men who lead us, and who claim to act as the mouthpiece of the slave class.. .

kepler

FFF,

I think we are on the same page. Check a couple of post boxes above.

When I opened up this post, I did a quick look for "obsessive compulsive disorder" on the forum. The search came back with 400 references. It's not like it had never occurred to anyone that there is some connection. That a member of the governing board would rattle on about it might be the equivalent of giving away company secrets. There's probably a binder labelled OCD in his office - eyes only.

A couple of years ago, many things that started to happen in my house seemed to be characterized by an ever raising high jump bar. As my X started to disappear over the event horizon, I heard her say something one day while she was on travel; this was at the point that we actually had to stay in separate hotels when I met her in Phoenix to show her the Grand Canyon. When I had offered to go to a Sunday service with her again, she now declined, but added.

"I just keep feeling like I can't do enough for Jehovah..."

And the bar was still going higher.

59

Pursuing higher education is comparable with having OCD - according to Gerrit Losch

by cedars in

after i posted my last "getting to know you" video where gerrit losch explains his "unique" views on armageddon, a couple of posters mentioned that other similarly controversial comments had been made by gerrit concerning higher education.. well, these comments were actually made in the same recording as the one i used in making the "armageddon" video, so i thought i should make the second video focussing on these.. here it is.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b7drwti-h4.

i realize many heavily indoctrinated publishers will try to defend these remarks by saying that, if it isn't in the society's publications, then gerrit losch's personal opinion is of no particular consequence.

however, the bible says that "out of the heart's abundance the mouth speaks", so by making these videos i hope i am at least showing people what is in the hearts of the men who lead us, and who claim to act as the mouthpiece of the slave class.. .

kepler

"Now this young man survived and the bullet had hit this part of the brain that was responsible for his compulsory behavior. After he recovered he was normal. So, the question is: Yes he survived coll[ege] in that case we can supply it to college. He survived that operation, the bullet operation.

"But would we recommend that to others? That’s a different matter"

-------

I don't follow this man's reasoning at all. Were we even presented a coherent question? He might have made his case better in the Italian.

Since GB member Gerrit Loesch waded into this metaphor-parable quagmire, this is what I come away with (below). And like an optical effect in a drawing, once it's seen, it's really hard to ignore.

Whether intended or not, he suggests that university training is comparable to remedying an obsessive-compulsive disorder by attempted suicide with a gun.

Now where does the compulsive disorder come into the picture?

His call to would-be students to drop what they are doing and start knocking on doors and distributing pamphlets so that other people might start knocking on doors and distributing pamphlets that have been churned out obsessive-compulsively for the last 100 years.

Let us disregard for a moment the severity, suffering or possible disrespect for people who have this problem. To cut to the chase, i f I had a choice between shooting myself with a gun or going to university to cure an OCD, I would choose the former. Especially with the knowledge that this invocation to duty comes from the same guy that was speculating on seven billion non-publishers getting irradiated for their non-participation.

It sounds like many on this forum already made a similar decision.

Loesch's argument implies that if the world as we know it ends in the next ten minutes or within Metheuselah generation years, you'll be sorry. For this he cites Luke 12:13. I read the chapter. That does not leap out at me. This "suit" should examine verse 33 as well. But I guess that wouldn't be publishing or governing.

That 71% of students mentioned monetary reward as a reason (perhaps among many) to go college should not be surprising. The air we breathe is 71% nitrogen as well, but I do not reject the sustenance of the 20% of it that is oxygen. Had Loesch ever come across the parable about hiding gifts under a bush? Or just simply bringing to maturity the gifts that God has granted us?

I have never heard of any one going to college for celebrity. Perhaps he is referring to those who might wish to go to a famous institution. Many of my high school friends wanted to go to Princeton or to Notre Dame…

It did not seem to trouble Mr. Loesch where concepts such as compulsive disorders seem to come from or where knowledge of them might be gained. Is psychology a word in his vocabulary? And then I wonder by what miracle did the young man survive the gun shot or how it was determined that he had performed fortuitous surgery ( if this is more than an urban legend) on the part of his brain where the malady originated? If it is true, then it was all in a day's work for someone who could have (as a result of theocratic enlightenment) been spending his days knocking on doors with copies of the WT and "What the Bible Really Teaches".