"So you have eight offices for the GB, and yet they are building a complex for 800-1000 people to serve them?"
"Priceless"
JakeM2012
JoinedPosts by JakeM2012
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60
Is The WTS Building Beth Sarim 2 ?
by metatron ini continue to puzzle over the future direction the watchtower is taking.
it seems very strange.. let's review: they are selling everything off in brooklyn, raking in huge sums from that real estate and building heavily in a fairly isolated part of upstate ny.. why?.
it may be classified as a country club (legally).
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60
Is The WTS Building Beth Sarim 2 ?
by metatron ini continue to puzzle over the future direction the watchtower is taking.
it seems very strange.. let's review: they are selling everything off in brooklyn, raking in huge sums from that real estate and building heavily in a fairly isolated part of upstate ny.. why?.
it may be classified as a country club (legally).
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JakeM2012
Narcissistic Supply said, " Yes. The business model seems total whack. They are building monster infrastracture for what?? To adminstrate their world wide real estate laundering???? What product are they selling. Sounds like Enron . Where is the cash flow to support all these gold plated toilets??? "
Interesting that ALL the brothers in the congregation that I used to go to when I told them about the new complex they just look at me and shake their heads back and forth, not up and down. I've had elders say when told about the property purchased, "Why is that necessary?", "What are they going to use that for?"
It seems that the local publishers are struggling to wrap their minds around this, because for most of the brothers the size of the projects that the society is having for themselves doesn't quite add up to the "no education policy", "pioneer, and be poor" policy, the "sacrifice all you've got for gods earthly organization policy", and the "listen, obey, and bend over" policy. It would be interesting to know if the GB have crossed the line of credibility with the flock by such a large project. Of course, they can come back with the "if we build it they will come" attitude, saying they are preparing for a great influx as world conditions worsen and God Calls people to the mountain of Jehovah. I'm expecting a great outflux personally, their gig is up.
It's kind of like the snake oil salesman of old. The first night everyone is buying thinking that the snake oil will cure anything, by the next night, the town has a posse ready to hang the snake oil salesman, and most of the time he is already down the road.
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If you were to protest an Assembly what would you put on your placard ?
by Finkelstein insince this topic of protesting assemblies recently came up, i was wondering .
what would be the some of the most proficient and perhaps strongest message.
to place on a placard to show as the people arrived at the venue.
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JakeM2012
"Shun This, Jerks"
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60
Is The WTS Building Beth Sarim 2 ?
by metatron ini continue to puzzle over the future direction the watchtower is taking.
it seems very strange.. let's review: they are selling everything off in brooklyn, raking in huge sums from that real estate and building heavily in a fairly isolated part of upstate ny.. why?.
it may be classified as a country club (legally).
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JakeM2012
So you have eight offices for the GB, and yet they are building a complex for 800-1000 people to serve them?
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71
Are You Upset My Miley Cyrus' Performance On MTV Awards?
by minimus ini'm not, even a little bit and i don't understand what the outrage is all about..
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JakeM2012
Upset no, I think the highlights showed bad entertainment. Now as far as Bethel goes, this would not be appropriate clothing for a tour of the Bethel Facilities.
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What was YOUR wake-up call before you left the JW´s organization?
by Mr Fool inwhat was your wake-up call(s) before you left the jw s organization?
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JakeM2012
Wake up call??? How about the zombie like attitude that existed in the congregation. I never felt like I fit in with many of the congregations. The whole socio/economic/education parameters left me associating with people that I knew I could have better quality friends than the limited number available in the congregation. As they say on Big Bang Theory, your thrown into association with people that have "few options, low goals", and limited education. Many were just loosers all the way around. The last congregation I was in was a nightmare.
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60
Is The WTS Building Beth Sarim 2 ?
by metatron ini continue to puzzle over the future direction the watchtower is taking.
it seems very strange.. let's review: they are selling everything off in brooklyn, raking in huge sums from that real estate and building heavily in a fairly isolated part of upstate ny.. why?.
it may be classified as a country club (legally).
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JakeM2012
114,000 sq. meters =1,227,085 square feet. I could be wrong, but the source "Brooklyn Eagle" gives a square footage of 832,000.
Also, there are several existing buildings already on site, " The organization is cleaning existing buildings on the site constructed by International Nickel — a two-story former laboratory and a one-story industrial building — and preparing for future development, Facilities Manager Troy Snyder said." http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091116/NEWS/911160318
" The campus buildings will include a three-to-four-story, 195,000-square-foot office building and place of worship; a three-to-four-story, 137,000-square-foot service building with kitchen, laundry and support functions; four five-story residential structures totaling 400,000 square feet; a two-story 100,000-square-foot maintenance shop; a three-level parking garage; and additional smaller buildings, including a vehicle repair shop (for onsite vehicles), a heating/cooling/generator house and a recreation building." ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/217485/1/Watchtowere28099s-Move-to-Warwick-e28098Not-Any-Time-Soone28099)
According to the newspaper The total square footage without the listed smaller buildings is 832,000 square feet, remember that there are several buildings existing on site that are being "cleaned up".
832,000 x $200 per square foot=$166,400,000. Jeff T's estimate, which is sound.
We also have to remember that a quick quide of estimating cost for these types of building is that material and labor are roughly in a relationship of 50/50 to each other. So if the rest of the world can build at $200 a square foot this type of office/residence hotel/ finished, what is the true cost of WTBT$?
Consider Reed Construction data http://www.reedconstructiondata.com/rsmeans/ Reports the U.S.A National Average 4-7 Story Hotel Construction Cost cost with Union Trades, Architects, and General Contractors overhead and profit of $181.76 per square foot.
Hotel, 4-7 Story Construction Cost Assumptions Location: US National Average Stories: 6 Story Height (L.F.): 10.00 Floor Area (S.F.): 135000 Basement Included: No Data Release: Year 2013 HOTEL, 4-7 STORY SQUARE FOOT COST ASSUMING FACE BRICK WITH CONCRETE BLOCK BACK-UP / R/CONC. FRAME
Cost Estimate (Union Labor) % of Total Cost Per SF Cost Total $137.17 $18,518,500 Contractor Fees (GC,Overhead,Profit) 25% $34.29 $4,629,600 Architectural Fees 6% $10.29 $1,388,900 Total Building Cost $181.76 $24,537,000 Cost Estimate (Open Shop) % of Total Cost Per SF Cost Total $126.50 $17,077,000 Contractor Fees (GC,Overhead,Profit) 25% $31.62 $4,269,300 Architectural Fees 6% $9.49 $1,280,800 Total Building Cost $167.61 $22,627,000 Personally I think that even including some expenses of food and shelter incurred with the cost of volunteer labor it would not be a greater cost than running union trades.
Subtract the General Contractors overhead and profit, along with Architectural Fees, your looking at $137 per square foot. $137x 832,000 sq.ft=$113,984,000 U.S. Dollars. Even with a 15% contingency for actual cost to be greater than estimated costs, another $17,097,600, total cost is $131,081,600.
If they just sold their New York City Property for $810 million -$113 million (cost of new building) they are left with $697,000,000. And I don't believe the $810 includes all their property does it?
Compare this to the cost to The Bellagio Hotel, Las Vegas 1998 dollars
Bellagio Las Vegas
3600 South Las Vegas Boulevard
Las Vegas NV United StatesStatus: built Construction Dates Began 1995 Finished 1998 Floor Count 37 Floor Area 445,920 m² Units / Rooms 3,015 Building Uses - hotel - casino - conference - parking garage - restaurant - retail Structural Types - highrise Architectural Style - postmodern Materials - glass - steel - concrete
445920 square meters= 4,799,842 square feet. Cost of Bellagio $1,600,000,000/4,799,842 square feet=$333 per square foot. in 1998 dollars.
At $1.6 billion, the Bellagio was the most expensive hotel ever built when it opened in 1998 on the site of the former Dunes.
MGM Resorts International bought the hotel from Steve Wynn, along with the Mirage and Treasure Island, in 2000 for $6.2 billion. The company has spent almost $500 million since then on additions and renovations.
The Bellagio today has 3,933 rooms, more than 100,000 square feet of casino space and 200,000 square feet of convention space.
($1,600,000,000 / 3933 rooms=$406,000 per room with all the other square footage for resturants, convention space etc.
Even at $406,000 per room the cost of 800 WTBTS rooms at Warwick NY, would be $324,000,000.
Another way to look at it at the 1998 cost of building the Belagio of $333 per square foot, WTBTS's 832,000 square feet x $333 per square foot= $277,056,000.
WTBTS is and does NOT build to the high standard of the most expensive hotel in the world (1998 dollars) even with inflation. Bethel wraps carpet up the walls in the corridors, cheap, crap, cheap crap, cheap crap.
If WTBTS incorporated similar finishes and amenities that the Belagio Hotel in Las Vegas did were talking at the most $277,056,000 to $324,000,000. Watchtower is/are not building to that level of luxury or quality!!!!
Cost of basement style underground parking? The NewPaper also reported that WTBTS, "Most of the 750 parking spaces at the facility would be underground." http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091116/NEWS/911160318 Further, if they are just building garages in what would otherwise be basements floors there is no additional cost structurally.
Below are recent bids awarded for a parking garage at Texas State University that is similar to the size of WTBTS: " Project also includes landscape garden, bus shelters and major pedestrian connections. There was very little room for value engineering given the standards in the Campus Master Plan (Very high Standards). Cement and structural steel costs are through the roof around here. Also, this garage had some (architectural) dressing up done on it."
Total bid: $14.9 million
Garage Portion of bid: about $13.7 million based on an earlier bid
Number of spaces: 721
Floors: 4? one of which is partially below grade.
Cost per space: $19,000 -
66
If you were to protest an Assembly what would you put on your placard ?
by Finkelstein insince this topic of protesting assemblies recently came up, i was wondering .
what would be the some of the most proficient and perhaps strongest message.
to place on a placard to show as the people arrived at the venue.
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JakeM2012
As an organization, Are you really ready for Christ's Return?
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Different degrees of shunning.
by jam inthe act of shunning period is a terrible thing, but i have notice over.
the years some go to the extreme in shunning.
shunned.
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JakeM2012
"May add, I'm not talking about JW family members." Jam I'm glad you cleared that up. I thought you were talking about my family. It didn't matter if you were an elder with wife pioneering, they would shun me because they didn't like something of me or wife. Go figure.
I get a kick out of people all distressed about their family shunning, and I understand that all families are not the capital "dysfunctional" that my active family is, but seriously, my family have fought for 65 years now and it just keeps going. It was there long before me. For me, I'm better off without the family, it's more peaceful, it just peaceful, and quiet, and no pitiful shunning. Shunning works both ways. Just ask me if I have an extra kidney for my brother. LOL
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60
Is The WTS Building Beth Sarim 2 ?
by metatron ini continue to puzzle over the future direction the watchtower is taking.
it seems very strange.. let's review: they are selling everything off in brooklyn, raking in huge sums from that real estate and building heavily in a fairly isolated part of upstate ny.. why?.
it may be classified as a country club (legally).
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JakeM2012
The following examples shown give us an idea of how much $800,000,000 (what WTBTS recently sold in Brooklyn) looks like in true construction cost. True construction cost meaning all labor trades are paid for (many buildings with union contractors), engineering, architects, etc paid to companies that some supply health insurance, retirement, etc for their employees. No unpaid "volunteers" worked on the following projects.
OK so WTBTS couldn't buy the World Trade Center for $3.8 billion. Granted.
Completing the One World Trade Center will cost $3.8 billion, The Wall Street Journal reports , making it "by far" the most expensive building in the world. ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/31/one-world-trade-center-will-cost-38-billion-dollars-expensive-building-in-the-world_n_1243917.html)
Cowboys Stadium Irving Texas $1.3 Billion
WTBTS could buy a football Stadium
The three newest pro football stadiums have cost $720 million (Lucas Oil Stadium, 2008), $1.15 billion(Cowboys Stadium, 2009) and $1.6 billion ( MetLife Stadium , 2010). Major League Baseball hasn't seen quite that level of inflation, but it has produced the three most expensive ballparks in history in 2008 (Nationals Park, $611 million) and 2009 (Citi Field, $900 million; Yankee Stadium, $1.5 billion). Perhaps it's worth noting that MLB's newest venue, four-month-old Marlins Park — the league's sixth to feature a retractable roof, and its smallest in total seating capacity — cost a mere $515 million.
Cruise Ships
This is the brochure for the Royal Princess Cruise Ship cost $735,000,000 (http://www.princess.com/downloads/pdf/ships/royal_princess.pdf)
PRINCESS cruise ships Year Built Tonnage Capacity Persons Cost in Millions Cost Per Berth Caribbean Princess 2004 113,000 3,096 $500 $129,000 Coral Princess 2003 91,600 1,974 $360 $141,000 Crown Princess 2006 113,000 3,070 $500 $130,000 Dawn Princess 1997 77,500 2,016 $300 $126,000 Diamond Princess 2004 115,900 2,674 $400 $121,000 Emerald Princess 2007 113,000 3,066 $500 $130,000 Golden Princess 2001 109,600 2,592 $450 $141,000 Grand Princess 1998 109,000 2,588 $450 $141,000 Island Princess 2003 91,600 1,974 $360 $141,000 Ocean Princess 2009 30,300 678 $150 $192,000 Pacific Princess 2002 30,300 678 $150 $192,000 Regal Princess 2014 141,000 3,600 $735 $175,000 Royal Princess 2013 139,000 3,600 $735 $175,000 Ruby Princess 2008 116,000 3,068 $500 $130,000 Sapphire Princess 2004 116,00 2,674 $400 $121,000 Sea Princess 1998 77,500 2,016 $300 $126,000 Star Princess 2001 109,000 2,592 $450 $141,000 Sun Princess 1998 77,700 2,016 $300 $127,000.00 In August 2003 cost of the building Frost Tower in Austin Texas was estimated at $137 million. [3]
