Perry

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Posts by Perry

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  44

  Israel ... Jehovah ... The Promised Land ... Genocide

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i was always uncomfortable with, but, as a good indoctrinated jw got myself to accept the spin.

  of course, now that i am out, when i speak with other "christian" friends, they make the same excuses.

  god's ways are above our ways ... okay, sure ... but really???.

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• 

  Perry

  Cofty,

  As I pointed out, the bible describes personal responsibilities, civic responsibilities, and responsibilities that lie in the providence of God. There are times however when the issue of "greater good" does fall into the hands of individuals and governments.

  For example, an individual may have to make a decision to "unplug" a loved one from a mechine for the greater good of limiting suffering.

  A government may have to make a distasteful decision to wipe out a community like hiroshima and nagasaki to limit the costlier causalty count of a land invasion against a totalitarian agressor. Even in man's limited scope, there are exceptional circumstances that demand a human price for the "greater good".

  So I ask, if we in our limited scope can at times, under extraordinary circumstance exact a human cost for the greater good, how can you criticize God in his infinite wisdom, good, and authority from doing the same?
• 
  44

  Israel ... Jehovah ... The Promised Land ... Genocide

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i was always uncomfortable with, but, as a good indoctrinated jw got myself to accept the spin.

  of course, now that i am out, when i speak with other "christian" friends, they make the same excuses.

  god's ways are above our ways ... okay, sure ... but really???.

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  3. 
• 

  Perry

  Cofty,

  Jesus also said : For he [government] is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

  While we have a personal obligation to love our neighbor and our enemy for that matter, we also have a civic obligation to assist the government in the administration of justice. To the extent that a governments' idea of justice agrees with God, to that extent it will have God's blessing or eventual wrath.
• 
  44

  Israel ... Jehovah ... The Promised Land ... Genocide

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i was always uncomfortable with, but, as a good indoctrinated jw got myself to accept the spin.

  of course, now that i am out, when i speak with other "christian" friends, they make the same excuses.

  god's ways are above our ways ... okay, sure ... but really???.

  1. 
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  3. 
• 

  Perry

  Shirely, you don't paly fair. I answered your question; why don't you answer mine:

  If God is perfect and you are not - how could you possibly be sure that you could tell the difference?

  westibilly questions:

  supposedly the reason why mankind is suffering is because the issue of sovereignty was raised in garden of eden.....but the more i think about this viewpoint the more i fail to see why a god would a) have allowed his sovereignty to be challenged

  This is not what happened in the G of E. This is what the WT says happened. Nowhere does the bible say this. What really happened is that Adam and Eve exercised their free will right to not believe God. When they did this, they disconnected themselves and their children from the Source of Life. Decay, the natural state of the physical world took its course. God's sovereignty was never in question. This is a subterfuge delimma created by the WT.

  humbled muses:

  But there must be a shared definition of GOOD as well as GOD. Do they fit together, Perry?

  I think they do. For those that accept the dictionary definition of God, they must also accept that good can only be ultimately defined by God, the only perfect and all-knowing being. Apart from God, we certainly have strong notions of good and evil, having been created in his image unlike the animals; but the details are worked out from a viewpoint of limited perception. God has no such limits. On a personal level, we are under obligation to love our neighbor as ourselves. Governments, exercising a greater responsibility, define more complicated issues of governance that include life and death issues at times. Governments are given more latitude becasue of the greater responsibilities involved. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't.
• 
  44

  Israel ... Jehovah ... The Promised Land ... Genocide

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i was always uncomfortable with, but, as a good indoctrinated jw got myself to accept the spin.

  of course, now that i am out, when i speak with other "christian" friends, they make the same excuses.

  god's ways are above our ways ... okay, sure ... but really???.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Perry

  why did YHWH kill children when he claimed killing children is offensive to him?

  Shirley, I assume that he figured a greater good would occur by passing judgment on the entire community. This assumption is in harmony with, and is consistent with the dictionary definition of "God" as being perfect.

  Now, your turn.....answer my question.
• 
  44

  Israel ... Jehovah ... The Promised Land ... Genocide

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i was always uncomfortable with, but, as a good indoctrinated jw got myself to accept the spin.

  of course, now that i am out, when i speak with other "christian" friends, they make the same excuses.

  god's ways are above our ways ... okay, sure ... but really???.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Perry

  Shirley, you cannot deal with language. In order to converse, agreed upon definitions are used to develope arguments. I illustrated that the common definition of "God" is rejected by you. When people have different definitions they end up arguing about different things, which is what we are doing.

  Please answer this question:

  If God is perfect and you are not - how could you possibly be sure that you could tell the difference?

  If you choose to run from this question, that's fine with me. But it is still there.
• 
  44

  Israel ... Jehovah ... The Promised Land ... Genocide

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i was always uncomfortable with, but, as a good indoctrinated jw got myself to accept the spin.

  of course, now that i am out, when i speak with other "christian" friends, they make the same excuses.

  god's ways are above our ways ... okay, sure ... but really???.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Perry

  Blondie that is just nonsense. That is like saying a government that employs the death penalty for depraved murderers is "not much different" from the criminals.
• 
  44

  Israel ... Jehovah ... The Promised Land ... Genocide

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i was always uncomfortable with, but, as a good indoctrinated jw got myself to accept the spin.

  of course, now that i am out, when i speak with other "christian" friends, they make the same excuses.

  god's ways are above our ways ... okay, sure ... but really???.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Perry

  Shirley,

  You are not consistent in your use of the word "God". Here's what the dictionary reads:

  God

  noun \ ˈ gäd also ˈ g ȯ d\

  God : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being

  You have to make up your mind if you are going to accept the dictionary's definition or not, or just make up your own. If you make up your own, you cannot criticize the God of the bible, because they are different.... not the same. You are criticizing a different God.

  On the other hand if you accept the dictionary's definition of the word God, then likewise you cannot criticize God because you acknowledge his perfection, which would include his perfect judgments, and his perfect right to display his mercies and judgments according to his purposes, not yours.

  So, in his "all-knowingness" he does things to acheive the maximum amount of good under the circumstances, dealing with a race of men & women who really want nothing to do with him... even though they say otherwise at times.

  Romans 8:7 - Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
  
  Romans 7:18 - For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

  All you are really saying is that you don't accept the God described in the dictionary. If he is perfect and you are not - how could you possibly be sure that you could tell the difference?
• 
  18

  Suckers

  by WhoYourDaddy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jw's are suckers.. they got fooled.. they devoted their life to a fraud.. they have been ambiently abused.. they have been used for the money.. they are stuck in a sick mindset.. with sick people.. in a sick temple.. and (the real estate fraud) makes money off the sickness.. i say run away fast.. get your family.. get your friends.. get your kids.. run as fast as you can.. don't look back.. eventually you will heal.. eventually..

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• 

  Perry

  galaxie,

  This has zero to do with science. I made a statement about what Jesus did for me. I had been on the run from this cult since I was 12 yrs. old when I knew they had lied to their members. I ran from their shame, I ran from my guilt for not being good enough, I ran from my family for not doing enough for the WT. I was constantly running from something - until Christ set me free from all that.

  He declared me righteous by his blood. He took my shame - naked on that tree. He took my guilt in court that fateful day. He spilled his blood in place of mine for my sin. I carry the righteousness of Jesus as my very own. God loves me as his own son.

  Now I don't fear JW's, I love them. I forgive them. I seek them out whenever I can to try and get them to examine & question the prospect of facing judgment after they die without a mediator to intercede.

  I now watch as THEY flee from my questions and shrink back in fear at the prospect of judgment. Where I used to be a victum, I am now the victor. It is the JW's who should be running from every ex-member who finds out the truth about Christ that the Wt tries so dilignetly to hide. There is no reason to run from these victums, they need love.....sometimes tough love, but love nonetheless.
• 
  44

  Israel ... Jehovah ... The Promised Land ... Genocide

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i was always uncomfortable with, but, as a good indoctrinated jw got myself to accept the spin.

  of course, now that i am out, when i speak with other "christian" friends, they make the same excuses.

  god's ways are above our ways ... okay, sure ... but really???.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Perry

  Was genocide against the inhabitants of the Promised Land a loving thing?

  I guess it was a loving thing to the child victims of Molech, their fire god that they burned their children in.

  Psalm 106:37-38 "They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and their daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; and the land was polluted with the blood."

  At least they had a god of sorts to blame this hideous practice on. Now people just abort their children in the name of selfishness.
• 
  18

  Suckers

  by WhoYourDaddy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jw's are suckers.. they got fooled.. they devoted their life to a fraud.. they have been ambiently abused.. they have been used for the money.. they are stuck in a sick mindset.. with sick people.. in a sick temple.. and (the real estate fraud) makes money off the sickness.. i say run away fast.. get your family.. get your friends.. get your kids.. run as fast as you can.. don't look back.. eventually you will heal.. eventually..

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  Perry

  And of course Cofty