Israel ... Jehovah ... The Promised Land ... Genocide

by wannabefree 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    This is a topic that I was always uncomfortable with, but, as a good indoctrinated JW got myself to accept the spin. Of course, now that I am out, when I speak with other "Christian" friends, they make the same excuses. God's ways are above our ways ... okay, sure ... but really???

    Is this something that is even excusable?

    If Jesus came to show just how loving God was ... is it because God did a terrible job getting that message through?

    Was genocide against the inhabitants of the Promised Land a loving thing?

    Couldn't God have directed the Israelites to an uninhabited area? Couldn't he have transformed a desert area into a land flowing with milk and honey? Wouldn't that have been a loving way to do it for a God who IS love?

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    Is this something that is even excusable?...Was genocide against the inhabitants of the Promised Land a loving thing?

    .

    ask these same "Christians" if The Holocaust, Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge, the ethnic cleansing in Easter Europe, etc. are also equally excusable? If the answer is "yes", then god can be excused (and you should find new friends); if the answer is "no", then god gets no break either.

    .

    If they fall back to the"god's ways are higher" ploy, then ask the "Christian" how the same set of moral standards they just used to judge Hitler's actions as immoral suddenly become inadequate to judge god...when he's guilty of precisely the same thing? If the Christian's moral standards are not adequate to judge god as 'immoral', then those same moral standards are also not adequate to judge his ways as good ("higher than ours") either. End of discussion.

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration

    Numbers 31 was one of the nails in the coffin for me personally.

    If there were ever a time for YHWH to correct Moses, this would be it. But instead God gets mad a Moses in Numbers 20 for hitting the rock and taking credit for water coming out of it. Makes sense.

  • prologos
    prologos

    yeah think of getting them to Saudi arabia, all that oil money and the jewish brains combined could have done wonders for the world.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Was genocide against the inhabitants of the Promised Land a loving thing?

    I guess it was a loving thing to the child victims of Molech, their fire god that they burned their children in.

    Psalm 106:37-38 "They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and their daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; and the land was polluted with the blood."

    At least they had a god of sorts to blame this hideous practice on. Now people just abort their children in the name of selfishness.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    I guess it was a loving thing to the child victims of Molech, their fire god that they burned their children in.

    .

    Tell me, Perry: If killing children was so "offensive" to god he felt compelled to order a genocide to get rid of the people performing child sacrifice, why did god then include the order to kill ALL the children as well?

    .

    Don't you find it a bit ironic (and completely hypocritical) that god's tactic to end child sacrifice was by killing children???

    .

    either way, the children were dead: either their parents killed them in sacrifice to Molech, or they were killed by the Israelite soldiers of YHWH.

    .

    But, let me guess your response to this, Perry: 'those children would eventually die anyway, as all people do, so what difference does it make if YHWH killed them immediately?'

    .

    In case you don't remember making this statement, let me remind you of what you said on another thread:

    Perry: "All men die, it makes no real difference if God decides some should die a little sooner or later for that matter to suit his purposes. But what about babies some may say? Maybe God did them a favor by removing them before they sinned".

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/274414/4/How-do-JWs-Not-see-how-barbaric-YHWH-is-Its-what-started-my-awakening#.UwitMI3n_Sc

  • Perry
    Perry

    Shirley,

    You are not consistent in your use of the word "God". Here's what the dictionary reads:

    God

    noun \ ˈ gäd also ˈ g ȯ d\

    God : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being

    You have to make up your mind if you are going to accept the dictionary's definition or not, or just make up your own. If you make up your own, you cannot criticize the God of the bible, because they are different.... not the same. You are criticizing a different God.

    On the other hand if you accept the dictionary's definition of the word God, then likewise you cannot criticize God because you acknowledge his perfection, which would include his perfect judgments, and his perfect right to display his mercies and judgments according to his purposes, not yours.

    So, in his "all-knowingness" he does things to acheive the maximum amount of good under the circumstances, dealing with a race of men & women who really want nothing to do with him... even though they say otherwise at times.

    Romans 8:7 - Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    Romans 7:18 - For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

    All you are really saying is that you don't accept the God described in the dictionary. If he is perfect and you are not - how could you possibly be sure that you could tell the difference?

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    that's exactly the kind of answer I'd expect from a fundamentalist.

    .

    the context of this topic is the Bible accounts of god's behavior. We're not talking about the dictionary vs. the Bible. I am not confused...and you are presenting a Strawman to avoid answering the issue.

    .

    Perry: you cannot criticize the God of the bible, because they are different.... not the same. You are criticizing a different God.

    .

    This is the predictable, canned response from a fundie who cannot face the real answer honestly because it's too uncomfortable to do so. Then again, what can I expect from someone who justifies the killing of babies as a good thing?

  • blondie
    blondie

    God directed the Israelites to kill every breathing thing including children. Not much different from tossing your child into the fire. WT reasoning: So how would babies teach them false worship?

    WTS views them as pests. Babies are incorrigibly wicked?

    *** w60 1/15 p. 55 This Is a Time of Judgment ***A SERIOUS TIME

    As the judgment period that ended with the Flood brought a permanent end to those people, so will the ending of the present judgment period permanently terminate the conscious existence of those who are judged adversely. This is, therefore, a very serious time.

    Parents who reject the good news of the Kingdom and who ignore the good principles and wonderful purposes of Jehovah God cannot expect their minor children to survive the execution of divine judgment. Until a child reaches the age where it can be held responsible for its actions, it is under family responsibility. Divine punishment or blessing that comes to its parents automatically falls upon it. This principle is seen at Ezekiel 9:6, where God’s command was to “slay utterly the old man, the young man and the virgin, and little children and women; but come not near any man upon whom is the mark.”—AS.

    The unresponsible children of the people who perished in the flood were not preserved with Noah in the ark, but were destroyed with their wicked parents. The same was true with regard to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. If those cities had contained ten righteous persons they would have been spared. Certainly there were more than ten unresponsible children in them; nevertheless, God destroyed the two cities.

    *** w05 12/1 p. 6 Armageddon—A Happy Beginning ***

    Many wonder, however, why a God who is the very embodiment of love would inflict death and destruction on much of humankind. The situation might be compared to that of a pest-infested house. Would you not agree that a conscientious homeowner should safeguard the health and well-being of his family by exterminating the pests?

    Similarly, it is because of Jehovah’s deep affection for humans that the battle of Armageddon has to be fought. God’s purpose is to make the earth a paradise and to elevate mankind to perfection and peace, with “no one making them tremble.” (Micah 4:3, 4; Revelation 21:4) What, then, is to be done with those who threaten the peace and security of their fellow humans? God must eliminate such “pests”—the incorrigibly wicked—for the sake of the righteous ones.—2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9; Revelation 21:8.

    *** w68 10/15 p. 637 Why God Decreed Extermination for the Canaanites ***

    The Canaanite religion was extraordinarily base and degraded, their “sacred poles” evidently being sex emblems and many of the rites of their “high places” involving gross sexual excesses and depravity. No wonder God ordered their extermination! If even the women and children were allowed to remain, they would entice the Israelites to practice immoral, false worship.—Ex. 23:24; 34:12-17; Num. 33:52; Deut. 7:3-5; 20:16-18.

    (Deuteronomy 20:15-18) 15 “That is the way you will do to all the cities very far away from you that are not of the cities of these nations. 16 It is only of the cities of these peoples that Jehovah your God is giving you as an inheritance that you must not preserve any breathing thing alive, 17 because you should without fail devote them to destruction, the Hit′ tites and the Am ′ or·ites, the Ca ′ naan·ites and the Per ′ iz·zites, the Hi ′ vites and the Jeb ′ u·sites, just as Jehovah your God has commanded you; 18 in order that they may not teach YOU to do according to all their detestable things, which they have done to their gods, and YOU may indeed sin against Jehovah YOUR God.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Blondie that is just nonsense. That is like saying a government that employs the death penalty for depraved murderers is "not much different" from the criminals.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit