if a change in the blood policy happens, who will be more upset, jws or former jws?
i suspect the latter.
when the beard thing went down, jw's seem to immediately embrace it, whereas many former jw's have been brooding about it.. did it take away a pet gripe we had?.
That is indeed true, Peacefulpete.
Getting stuck in a particular "holding pattern," always looking back, is what the "pillar of salt" metaphor of Lot's Wife may be likened to. It can be self-destructive as one can end up 'dying' with the past and perishing 'society.'
if a change in the blood policy happens, who will be more upset, jws or former jws?
i suspect the latter.
when the beard thing went down, jw's seem to immediately embrace it, whereas many former jw's have been brooding about it.. did it take away a pet gripe we had?.
One cannot help how they might feel over anything that happens anywhere in life. I myself laughed over the beards and slacks, while I heard some felt betrayed. But I have my own reasons which have nothing to do with being a Jehovah's Witness for my reaction. How I felt had to do with being a Jewish man who lives in a world where growing a beard is a norm and I never really think about somebody allowing or not allowing me to do this.
And being a refugee is not necessarily a bad thing or a good thing. It often comes upon people due to circumstances beyond their control. One cannot "stop" or "start" living in a state that is forced upon you.
And it isn't a term to judge others by.
The Watchtower religion is ever-changing because it is supposed to be the "restoration" of "true religion" which, according to their own theology this restoration would only occur in the Last Days during the final generation mentioned by Jesus in his discourse given recorded at Matthew 24. So their existence has painted them into a corner, so to speak. Those closest to them will feel something with any news from them or about them.
Because so much time has passed from the mid-1800s until now, 2024, and the group has drastically and dramatically evolved to deal with the fact that this generation is stretching over 2 centuries, people are seeing a different religion coming and going out. It should be upsetting to some ex-members. It is a horrible lie to see them go on and on.
It lies about life, history, religion, God, culture, belief, disbelief, science, medicine, sex, and itself, just to scratch the surface. So every change is a reminder not only of the ridiculousness of it all but to some people, the changes are personal and might remind them of where they once landed on the spectrum of JW beliefs and promotion. Theat can be a sore spot.
This sort of turmoil pains many who have been leaving the LDS church recently too. While the recent president seems to have put a stop to it, there was about a decade of faithful reporting from the Mormon church on its history and on Joseph Smith's lack of truthfulness behind his claims. It did much damage by decreasing numbers steadily until to pandemic. 2023 saw its first increase ever after that "truth" fiasco.
It's natural to feel in response to news reports, whether they regard the Jehovah's Witnesses or not. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
if a change in the blood policy happens, who will be more upset, jws or former jws?
i suspect the latter.
when the beard thing went down, jw's seem to immediately embrace it, whereas many former jw's have been brooding about it.. did it take away a pet gripe we had?.
The religion I knew in the 1980s no longer exists. As I have often told others, if I were a baptized JW who fell into a coma in say 1985 and awoke today, I would be disfellowshipped for my belief and practices since my Watchtower religion would not be acceptable by Witnesses today.
I see the Jehovah's Witnesses as an ad hoc religion. Despite their claim to the contrary, they are founded on the premise that they are the sole modern-day prophet of God for the final days of history, inspired with the knowledge to understand the "true meaning" of Bible prophecy to forewarn of and proclaim the coming battle of Armageddon to the nations.
But as any ad hoc system, since the have been doing this since the 1800s (and it is now 2024), their system is set up for change. Jesus return in 1874 and subsequent destruction of all nations in 1914 left alot to be desired, so much change was ready at hand and quick to be to be thought of by the next generation of prophets to follow up behind in the footsteps of self-proclaimed appointee-of-God Charles Taze Russell. And thus it has always been.
The only true freedom will come to people who disconnect entirely from this ad hoc system and others like it. There will always be a change on the horizon.
The Mormon religion is one of the biggest ad hoc religious systems built upon an "end of the world/prophet" scenario. It is always undergoing change, always. Recently they have attempted to change their name, topple the angel Moroni from his place as their mascot/logo and replace him with Jesus (why wasn't he there in the first place?), and oddly all of this will of course be subject to change when the current prophet dies and the next one takes his place.
When all these current changes, I do, however fear a collapse similar to its sister religion, the Worldwide Church of God that went through similar changes and quickly and just lost over 75% of its membership in about 2 years. Unlike the LDS church, the Watchtower religion is highly apocalyptic like the WCG was. When it became apparent that changes being offered are novelty instead of following through on the end-time promises, like the fellowship of the WCG, followers may see it as pure gaslighting. If not handled right this will create a mass Exodus effect from the JWs instead of greater adherence.
This type of freedom will be different from independence. Independence is when a person realizes and chooses to leave and is capable of being untouched after they have done so.
After a collapse or during one, people leave as exiles. There is freedom, but for a while people are emotional refugees. That is a bit different.
Some of us might still be in that "refugee" situation, where we are affected by where we left. So when we hear news of what happens in the Watchtower world, it can affect us based on our particular situation and loss. But if there is a collapse due to poor leadership, it will be like popping corn without a lid on the top.
When springs have been held down too tightly and you suddenly let them go, they shoot off, some very far away. One needs only talk to those who have gone through what happened with the WCG fell apart.
is 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
People have various beliefs about God. Some don’t even believe in God. Being exposed to the Jehovah’s Witnesses and their religion, we were likely taught that the Bible was giving us a unified description of what the “one true God” was thinking, feeling, and desiring. The Bible was a singular product, at least in their teaching, so we might still feel there is a simple, singular answer.
If you are looking for what the Hebrew God of the Bible is thinking, if God’s mind changes, you might be surprised to find that at least in context from the standpoint of Jewish thinkers, there is no “mind” to consider.
Of course it looks like the Jews are describing a Bronze Age deity when they talk about YHWH in the narratives (especially in Genesis through 2 Chronicles), but it was designed to do that. The writers were living in the Iron Age, from the period of the Persian Empire.
If you were one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, then you were taught to read the text as historical and at face value. That was due to both a lack of education from its leaders and perhaps duplicity. The Jews, on the other hand, were “wrestling” with the concept of God, not settled with it, as if it were static, as the Watchtower was trying to teach it.
This is why there is no “mind” for “God” to change in Jewish theology. It is taught that one cannot use prayer and ask for God to change things as Christians do in their prayers. That is not what prayer is for in Judaism, which is why prayers are written down, settled in the Siddur, composed of the Psalms and several other ancient texts handed down from the centuries. One learns to accept God’s will or to accept reality as settled, unchangeable, by repeating the words of psalms and holy texts daily to edify the mind.
In other words, Jews learn to change their mind via prayer, not change God’s “mind.”
The clues have always been there in the Biblical Hebrew text via anachronisms, written by Hebrews who were not from the Bronze Age but merely guessing what life might have been like for their ancestors. They had some legends, some folklore, and borrowed some mythology from around them that came from the foreigners among whom they dwelled. This mixture provided the following Iron Age boo-boos, for starters:
And the list can go on and on (and we haven’t even left the book of Genesis yet). Since Jehovah’s Witnesses do not dare question the validity of the Biblical text, all of this is reality.
Thematically, the Biblical writers in the Mosaic Law narrative and beyond, state that the Jews are called “Israel” and not “Abraham.” The name “Israel” means to “wrestle with God,” not to blindly accept via faith. The folklore about Jacob is that at the point that he is about to make peace with his brother and his past and to inherit the land with his family and his children, he wrestles all night with God and never stops. The wrestling match leaves a permanent identifying mark on him too, not just a new name.
The idea is that God is not a static, one time concept that gets written down in Scripture and that is that. If one reads the Psalms, the concept of God is different from the narratives in Genesis through 2 Chronicles. If you read Esther, there is no God. If you read the Prophets, God is entirely different, far more complex, almost denying what you learned before.
God changes or better yet, what the Jews learned about God changes. They “wrestle” with God. Sometimes God is this, sometimes they learn that God is that.
The idea behind God today is that Jews cannot say what “God” is. Unlike Christianity that defines God, i.e., God “is” love, God “is” omnipresent, omniscient, etc. Judaism sees God as Ineffable and thus undefinable.
This does not mean that Judaism is the owner and main definer of “God.” But if one is talking about the God of Abraham, the ideas of what they are talking about in this context might help.
I suggest that anyone can make up their own minds on what they wish to believe, however, and that no religion or religious authority has the final say on what God is or isn’t. However, again, in this context, and in this context only, here is where many in Judaism have come to over the centuries in comparison to the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Some go so far as to add that God is not personal or not a “person,” so to speak, meaning God is beyond personhood. The concept is that there is no supernatural God, i.e., God is not the creator as much as creation is godly or evolution is an act of what we understand as divine, if that makes sense. The spark of “divinity” is in everything and everyone, but God is not omnipresent in the Christian sense, such as a supernatural presence is everywhere controlling everything, knowing everything, and responsible for everything that happens.
The various and different stories in the Scriptures are ancient concepts, elementary in the Jewish evolution of wrestling with the God concept. Not everyone believes in God, feels a need for God, or will come to the same conclusions. Hopefully some of this may have been of some help wherever you are on your personal journey.
in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.
i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.
i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.
my dog is dead now no thanks to you
in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.
i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.
i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.
I am so tired of you bullying me Jeffro
Why are you so mean Jeffro
Why Jeffro
Why
Why
I was so nice
I am so angry now
Is this what you wanted
To see me snap
Are you happy
You exJws are mean. Look at your pists to me. What do you want?!
in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.
i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.
i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.
You exJWs are evil people! You are evil bullies!
in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.
i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.
i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.
in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.
i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.
i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.
in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.
i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.
i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.
And on top of everything else...
