A huge portion of the world is apathetic to the concept of deities, they are called Buddhists. The Buddha, it's claimed, said little about gods but if they existed, they were irrelevant. Rather than imagine an entity to explain causes, he assumed an unwritten law of karma. Our actions have untold consequences that effect the physical world and our own well being. While he was a product of his age in many ways, he is said to have been a deep thinker that saw the waste of resources and emotion spent on appeasing deities. He also saw worship of them of no value in improving the mind and character.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
I'm not sure I quite follow, but the "all at once" phrase may be a large part of your difficulty accepting the natural explanation for belief in gods.
I was trying to illustrate the fact that inferential reasoning is common, even among other animals. Primate studies have demonstrated they are very similar in their ability to impute motives and formulate opinions about personalities and anticipate behavior. This is sometimes part of what is called social cognition. In short the ability to conceive and retain an impression of another personality. For humans, having the added ability of complex language, we pass on detailed concepts, to get transmitted communally, eventually changing and growing in sophistication with the additional input of more imaginations. We can have real emotions about imaginary characters. Fear, affection etc.
So, what I'm getting at is there is nothing "all at once" about it. Human religious development grew from simple assumptions of agency involved in the otherwise unexplainable movement into complex rationalizations of how to appease these agents. The agents are mental constructs that offer comfort or fear.
Monotheism is a very late invention in our species. Some would say it is an unworkable one. Persians and Jews (and Egyptian Atenism) found it difficult to attribute all the good and bad to a single powerful praiseworthy entity. Hence the concept of an ultimately good and an ultimately bad god in eternal struggle. God/devil. True monotheism probably never existed.
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
Well, that really isn't the case. Many spirits were assumed minor powers, many were thought of as mischievous and with unique abilities other than ours to cause trouble but not all powerful. Polytheism/henotheism essentially means that there was no all-powerful. Power was distributed around as agents of countless phenomenon. Eventually the philosophically literate had a problem with their deity being less than everything and imagined a single all-in-one God. We happen to come from a culture with that theology, but even today the majority of the world has more than one deity/spirit.
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US SOLE DISSENTING "VETO" VOTE ON UN COUNCIL TO PREVENT PALESTINIAN UN MEMBERSHIP!!!
by Golden4Altar inus sole dissenting "veto" vote on un council to prevent palestinian un membership!!!.
the obvious wickedness of usa .
on world wide display!.
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peacefulpete
As passionately as we all wish for a resolution to the situation in Palestine, sometimes we just don't have enough of the facts to be able to understand a complex situation.
U.S. deputy ambassador Robert Wood told the Security Council that the veto “does not reflect opposition to Palestinian statehood but instead is an acknowledgment that it will only come from direct negotiations between the parties."
The United States has “been very clear consistently that premature actions in New York — even with the best intentions — will not achieve statehood for the Palestinian people,” deputy State Department spokesman Vedant Patel said.
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
Blondie...they simply ignore the fundamental issue, by directing attention away from the contradiction. If a god has the ability to see the future and know all, the pronouncement of judgement ought never need be reversed. Such a being would only need to change his judgement if he failed to give the matter his full attention.
An alternative available to believers is as Jeremiah suggested wherein pronouncements of judgement are actually just threats or possibilities that God can reverse at whim, like a potter doing what he wants to clay.
Halcon...Belief in spirits (in objects or in actions like wind) is the product of inferential logic. When nothing readily visible accounts for an action or growth, something invisible must. These invisible agents naturally took the form of the visible animals and people the mind is familiar with. The ability to reason inferentially is vital for survival, but often leads to incorrect conclusions when the causative factor is less than obvious. My clever dog has inferential reasoning. When the wind blows and slams a door he barks assuming someone came in. Who knows how his mind explains the fact that he sees no one. He might be clever enough to imagine invisible someones.
Religion, while involving spirits, at it's core is an attempt to control the uncontrollable. Rites and ritual combine with story as a way to tame the natural world and threats to safety. As was said it didn't take long for entrepreneuring/delusional individuals proclaimed themselves experts aka shamans. I'm also pretty sure my dog worships me as a means to end. Cuddling up and acting cute when he wants me to open the fridge door.
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Do you recognize the Truth? Watchtower July, 2024
by Listener inthe stated focus of this study article is.
focustraining ourselves to discern the difference between the truth we have learned from jehovah and the falsehoods promoted by satan and our opposers.. of course, the article goes on to claim that the truth is not only in the bible, but also from the watchtower organization.
the first of two qualities needed to discern truth is -.
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peacefulpete
But in the days when the book of Acts was written, had they already witnessed a century of false predictions?
Yes. Well close to it. When Acts was written there was already a huge diversity of Christianities (a half dozen or so sects are cleverly referenced) and many of them evolved specifically due to the failure of the promised end. In fact, Acts was written in response to this. The focus had shifted from imminent judgement of the nations to forgiveness of sins and resurrection. The only brief mention of Jesus' return I can recall is the cryptically worded Acts 1:11 that lent to a multitude of interpretations.
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Do you recognize the Truth? Watchtower July, 2024
by Listener inthe stated focus of this study article is.
focustraining ourselves to discern the difference between the truth we have learned from jehovah and the falsehoods promoted by satan and our opposers.. of course, the article goes on to claim that the truth is not only in the bible, but also from the watchtower organization.
the first of two qualities needed to discern truth is -.
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peacefulpete
nowwhat....The reference to Berean Jews in Acts serves the exact same purpose for the author as the WT comments about having an eagerness to accept what they say and their interpretation of scriptures, as they are speaking God's 'thoughts'. The reference to 'searching' the scriptures is not suggestive of careful contextual critical analysis but the process of following along with the proof texting and becoming convinced of this new take on the verses. This eagerness to adopt the new interpretation of the scriptures, shared by the writer of the book of Acts, is what earned these characters the flattering description, 'noble-minded'.
In both the WT and Acts what is encouraged is eagerness to accept how the church leaders interpret scriptures.
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
Maybe the issue is that, over time, we have defined the Biblical god in ways that aren't consistent with his words and actions as described in the Bible.
Or, the 'words and actions described in the Bible' aren't 'consistent'. This either reflects a changing perception of God or a changing God.
I noticed no one touched the idea of using Jeremiah to explain the 2000 year 'delay', maybe God changed his mind.
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
Sea breeze....An example of an unconditional declaration of God is the Lord’s promise to David, “Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever” (2 Samuel 7:16). No conditions were stated or implied. No matter what David did or did not do, the word of the Lord would come to pass.
That is actually a classic example of later redaction changing what appears in some texts as unconditional into a conditional statement after the Exile.
Psalm 132:
The Lord swore an oath to David,
a sure oath he will not revoke:
“One of your own descendants
I will place on your throne."Then we see the promise modified in the next verse:
If your sons keep my covenant
and the statutes I teach them,
then their sons will sit
on your throne for ever and ever.Similarly, 1 Kings 2, in contrast to 2 Samuel, makes clear the author understood the promise to be conditional:
When David’s time to die was near, he told his son Solomon, 2 “I am going the way of all the earth. So be strong. Show yourself to be a man. 3 Do what the Lord your God tells you. Walk in His ways. Keep all His Laws and His Word, by what is written in the Law of Moses. Then you will do well in all that you do and in every place you go. 4 Then the Lord will keep His promise to me. He has said to me, ‘Your sons must be careful of their way, to walk before Me in truth with all their heart and soul. If they do, you will never be without a man on the throne of Israel.’
It is a fine example of how when the exile occurred many of the previous national traditions were reinterpreted or modified.
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
The Jonah story naturally comes to mind. The message of the obvious satire is that if only Jonah had not been successful in converting Ninevah, the Assyrians would never have conquered Israel. For God was determined to destroy Ninevah, the later capital of the Assyrian empire and birthplace of Sennacherib. The Persian period author was a master humorist. He likely intended to frame the story around the probably historical prophet Jonah of Israel who according to 2 Kings advised the Baal worshipping King Jeroboam II to pursue an expanded kingdom when Assyria was occupied with rebellions elsewhere. The very actions that triggered a retaking of Israel by Sennacherib. It's all an obvious parody with giant fish, brooding prophets, miraculous shade plants, caricatures of piety (including fasting cattle) and Yahweh worshiping Ninevites.
I my opinion, this piece may have served the theological purpose of mocking the notion of national uniqueness and divine justice. The Persian period when this was written saw many of the Jewish literati struggling with these concepts.