do you think national pride is a good thing?
Oh, course. It is quite natural and healthy to take pride in your culture and independence.
Blind cultlike nationalism is dangerous as it translates into bigotry or dehumanizing of others.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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62
England v Ukraine
by BoogerMan inso nice to see thousands upon thousands of fighting-age ukrainian men managed to escape the war and reach wembley to support their national football team yesterday.
things must be improving, eh?.
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peacefulpete
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49
Some thoughts on the message of doom
by JeffT inone of the recent threads on the talk about the hailstone message got me to thinking.
the problem with putting out a message like that is what to do when nothing happens.
i have to think that somebody will be asking that question.
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peacefulpete
Were they so driven that they dismissed something so incredible? Or was magic so common that reattaching a man's ear wasn't enough to prevent them from arresting, torturing, and murdering a literal miracle worker?
A literalist Christian reader is guilty of equal tone deafness. The pericope is again an exercise in typological reading of the OT. Thrice the expression "fulfilled" is used.
8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. If you are looking for me, then let these men go.” 9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: “I have not lost one of those you gave me.”
49 Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled.”
54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”This is not a retelling of history, but a theological interpretation of passages (including 2Esdras see below) reimagined as prophecy.
The betrayal, the kiss, the setting in Gethsemane, the surrounding by enemies, the preservation of his followers, etc. are all from the OT.
What then was meant by Jesus stopping the sword action? The clear theological/political message is repeated twice in Mark.14:48 “Am I leading a rebellion?” said Jesus, “that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? 49 Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled.”
36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
The writer of Mark is making very clear to Roman audiences that Christianity was not a threat. A timely message when it was written.
Beyond that the story is ripe with symbolism. The one hit with the sword was identified as the servant of the High Priest, (who represented the Law), fitness for high Priesthood included no bodily defect. In Josephus a High Priest was made unfit for service by having his ears removed. War, 1.13.9)
Then the possibility that slavehood is in discussion. A slave who had his right (per detail added by John) ear pierced was committed to perpetual servitude. Was this symbolism again?
How about the guy's name being included? Malchus (meaning King) was this another reference to the Law and sin no longer being King? Who knows?
But what's clear is the author's own explanation that this scene was written to both identify Jesus as the OT typological fulfillment and reassure Roman authorities they posed no threat.
Regarding the John 19:
8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. If you are looking for me, then let these men go.” 9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: “I have not lost one of those you gave me.”
This is another example of NT writers utilizing books regarded as apocryphal by many today.
2 Esdras 2:26 -
As for the servants whom I have given thee, there shall not one of them perish; for I will require them from among thy number.
It is also of significance that Mark, Matt nor John suggest the ear was healed. Only the writer of Luke writing well after Matt and Mark mentions a miracle. Perhaps he missed the symbolism and simply saw it as an opportunity to add another one. -
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England v Ukraine
by BoogerMan inso nice to see thousands upon thousands of fighting-age ukrainian men managed to escape the war and reach wembley to support their national football team yesterday.
things must be improving, eh?.
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peacefulpete
Everyone knows the power of morale and emotions. Sports are a metaphor for war in many ways. It's a huge boost to national pride and cultural identity for Ukraine to have a winning team. If I was in charge of the war in Ukraine I'd absolutely promote the game.
Recall the legendary Ukrainian/German soccer match of 1942 during WW2. It is still celebrated as a huge moral victory.
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Some thoughts on the message of doom
by JeffT inone of the recent threads on the talk about the hailstone message got me to thinking.
the problem with putting out a message like that is what to do when nothing happens.
i have to think that somebody will be asking that question.
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Mass Shooting at Kingdom Hall in Hamburg, Germany
by EdenOne inmass shooting at a kingdom hall in hamburg, germany this evening.
at least 6 or 7 killed, dozens injured.
single shooter on the run, police doesn't rule out more shooters.
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peacefulpete
JWs are just people in an unhealthy religion. -
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CSA Victom Speaks Out
by LostintheFog1999 ini happened to come across this video at the beginning of the week.
you feel so sorry for this poor woman who experienced csa and then the hardheartedness of the elders (what's new there) when she needed genuine love and help.. https://fb.watch/j1qacgxphi/.
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peacefulpete
This stuff moves slowly through the system. It almost has to be reworded. Imo.
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Bible Dramas - they really have no idea
by eyeslice init seems the watchtower are ploughing ahead with bigger and better film studios but come on, they really have no idea.. how come all the people in times past look like healthy, middle class americans/ europeans/australians in costume?
get real.
even a visit to rural india today would give a hint of how people probably lived back then.
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peacefulpete
Near constant state of war as well. We live in the best of times. Most of us have a quality and length of life unprecedented in history. -
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What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?
by Sea Breeze inwe all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.
my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.
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peacefulpete
https://www.amazon.com/Shades-Sheol-Death-Afterlife-Testament/dp/083082687
Great book. Discusses obscure passages like 2 chronic 16:14
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What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?
by Sea Breeze inwe all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.
my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.
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peacefulpete
Often John 3:13 "no one has ascended to heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man." has been understood as insisting that Jesus was telling Nicodemus that no one had gone to heaven prior to Jesus. Yet oddly Jesus appears to be saying that he alone has ascended to heaven. Commentators are struck by the surprising use of the perfect tense.
"The perfect tense "has ascended" is unexpected." Morris, The Gospel According to John, 223
:"The use of the perfect tense is a difficulty, for it seems to imply that the Son of Man has already ascended into heaven." Raymond Brown, The Gospel According to John, 1:132.
"The difficulty of the verse lies in the tense of "has ascended." It seems to imply that the Son of Man had already at the moment of speaking ascended into heaven.? C.K. Barrett, The Gospel According to St. John (London: SPCK, 1972), 177.
So then what was the author of the words at John 3 trying to say? An answer may be found in comparing Jewish and Christian idiom. It appears that "No one has ascended to heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven" is a figure of speech indicating a special divine enlightenment. Jesus in the context of verse 13 is revealing his unique understanding of the secrets of life and salvation.
Significantly the phrase "who is in heaven," at the end of verse 13 which appears in many Greek as well as Latin and Syriac manuscripts, (A [ * ] Q Y 050 Ë 1,13 Ï latt sy c,p,h and late second early 3rd century Hippolytus, Against Hersies of Noetus 1, 1:7 )
This would suggest that Jesus, while living on earth, was at the same time also "in heaven".. IOW We are speaking in metaphors. Being in communication with God could be said to have 'ascended to heaven' to have heard these things. Nicodemus wants to understand "heavenly things" and it is only Jesus who "ascended to heaven" and "is in heaven" who can reveal them.
Following this then, the variants and omission of the closing words in some leading mss, "who is in heaven" possibly resulted from literalizing the expression and trying to make sense of it in the same way that modern readers usually do.
Perhaps this is similar to what is meant at Eph 2:6 when it says Christians are "seated in heavenly places", meaning having received enlightenment, a familiarity with heavenly things.
Similarly, Baruch 3:29 asks:
"Who has gone up to heaven and obtained her [Wisdom] and brought her down from the clouds?"
Adam Clarke commented on this passage: This seems to be a figurative expression for "no one has known the mysteries of the Kingdom," as in Deuteronomy 30:12 and Romans 10:6; and the expression is found in the generally received maxim that to be perfectly acquainted with the concerns of a place, it is necessary for a person to be on the spot.
A German expositor, Christian Schoettgen, in his Horae Hebraicae observed of John 3:13
: "It was an expression common among the Jews who often say of Moses that he ascended to heaven and there received a revelation on the institution of divine worship.? He quotes the rabbis as saying, "It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Oh that we had one like Moses the prophet of the Lord to ascend into heaven and bring it [the Law] down to us." (Jerusalem Targum on Deut. 30:12).
So John 3:13 cannot be used as evidence that the author/editors of John denied the commonly believed idea of ancient worthies ascending to heaven. This understanding dovetails well with Jesus' assertion that Abraham Isaac and Jacob were raised and alive to worship God in Mark 12:26,7.
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What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?
by Sea Breeze inwe all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.
my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.
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peacefulpete
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John 3:13.
Does not mean what you think it means
There were also those that held the soul was immortal but unconscious or at least impotent until the resurrection. A fairly cohesive melding of Greek ideas with ancient Canannite. The author of Revelation seems to have held that view.