Posts by peacefulpete

4

Extraordinary CLAIMS require extraordinary EVIDENCE

by BoogerMan in

some of christianity's denominations/tribes/clans claim that god almighty/christ jesus personally selected their leadership/clergy to represent heaven on earth.. question for jw's: what scriptural or divine proof convinced/convinces you that it was the org/governing body?.

self-proclaimed statements from literature does not qualify as proof..

peacefulpete

Ask a JW (or any similar) if they ever wonder how other people can be devoutly loyal to their church but still be wrong. (of course they believe them to be wrong)

They will likely say they were "lied to, deceived" because they haven't really deeply considered what makes a person devoutly loyal to a religion. Instead of getting mired in a debate about doctrine with them ask :

Might culture and family have had an influence?

Might it be a sense of community, commonality even affections members of the church have for each other?

Might it be the religion gives them a sense of certainty in a changing world?

Might it offer comfort in times of grief?

Then ask if those are also true of their religion, does it offer certainty and comfort? does it have a warm familiarity from years of memories with family and friends? Do you feel a part of the community of worshipers?

So might what you believe to be true of others be true for you?

35

Former Elders Please - Disbeliever recently married to a JW

by doasthouwilt in

jw
friends

i recently married my best friend of 32 years.

she is a life-long jw and once an active pioneer, i am a 'worldly' person through-and-through, always will be.

we married because it was the only way we could find a way of staying together while giving her a path back to her religion ultimately, which she does not want to (or cannot) let go of.

peacefulpete

No two ways about it, it will complicate your relationship. Be a good husband and your behavior will belie the narrative about "worldly" men. She must already recognize this but it may take a while to fully penetrate. It may never. In fact I've seen cases where the JW pursues the church activity as a penance. Do you wish to participate in the holidays with your family? Do you want to share religious and political opinions or discuss science? Movies and TV? I wonder what your dates were like if topics like this were openly discussed.

15

Future

by punkofnice in

i wonder what this earth will really be like in 500 years from now?.

what are your thoughts?.

peacefulpete

Don't you watch Star Trek?

I envision a more homogenous world, the zeitgeist of this century is one of cultural exchange and adoption. McDonalds in China and Panda Wok in Montana. (K-pop, that's something to ponder). Information is instantaneous (factual or not). Environmental and political necessity will increase migration. This sharing cannot be suppressed.

There will be pockets of terrible suffering and probably another nuclear light show or two. But people will adapt and memenically evolve into a single society administered by local authorities.

Oh, and about half the animal species will be gone but we will have tackled safe clean energy production.

21

The Great Tribulation

by Fisherman in

will the great tribulation hurt individuals more than what job, jesus, roman punishment, naz&i germany, hiroshima, jail, capital punishment, disease, pain, terror, horror, soldier in the battlefield or some terrible pain people experience this very moment?

how worse can pain and suffering get.

it is very common.

peacefulpete

You mean your version of what Jesus said.

He is as free to reword, revise or imagine words of Jesus as the next guy. It's a Christian tradition.

21

The Great Tribulation

by Fisherman in

will the great tribulation hurt individuals more than what job, jesus, roman punishment, naz&i germany, hiroshima, jail, capital punishment, disease, pain, terror, horror, soldier in the battlefield or some terrible pain people experience this very moment?

how worse can pain and suffering get.

it is very common.

peacefulpete

'tribulation' (thlipseōs) is a word used in a number (45) of texts in the NT meaning 'hardship' and often used to mean 'persecution' of Christians. (eg. Acts 11:19, 2Cor1:8) Revelation was written at a time of persecution and expectation was for this to increase and culminate in all Christians being killed and going to heaven.

As an aside, the "the" as in "the great persecution".is just grammatically called for as this sentence follows a colorful description of that persecution. Much like the 'the' in Rev 1:9 is grammatically called for.

"I, John, your brother and partner in 'the tribulation' and the kingdom"

Yes the writer anticipated this persecution to come to a final head, so in that way the persecution anticipated in Rev 7 was greater than previous persecution.

Well, It didn't happen, in fact in time the Christians became the persecutors. And here we are 2000 years later with some here still trying to shoehorn it into JW chiliast doctrine.

7

Children being used as guinea pigs in New York

by ignored_one in

new york's hiv experiment by jamie doran .

reporter/producer, guinea pig kids .

hiv positive children and their loved ones have few rights if they choose to battle with social work authorities in new york city.

peacefulpete

Perhaps a more balanced approach to this difficult topic.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/aids-drugs-tested-on-foster-kids/

14

2013 New World Translation

by Jerome56 in

on their website in the video "organizational accomplishments" watchtower devotes this segment to praising the superiority of the new world translation.

about half way through, david splane relates the reason for a change in wording from the old 1984 nwt reference bible to the 2013 revised nwt.

he said this was because of the recent discovery of an older manuscript that contained the greek word for overseer that was unavailable when the reference bible was being compiled.

peacefulpete

XBEHERE...was that letter discussed somewhere?

13

Does anybody ever wonder why ?

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

supposedly, god jehovah, el , or whatever else he may have been called many thousands of years ago, or so the storys goes ,dealt with humans on a regular basis communicating with them for either good or bad.according to how they pleased him or displeased him.. so the bible record says.. how is it that god , jehovah or whatever other name you want to call him has not communicated with humans on any level for the past 2000 years ???.

in this scientific ,technological age ,wouldn`t you think this would be the time he would communicate with the potential dangers we face in potentially destroying ourselves and ruining the planets wildlife unless he interveined ?.

that`s if you even beleive that such a god actually exists .. and if he does why so silent in this day and age,?.

peacefulpete

Of course many, if not most, churches believe God is communicating today through miracles and charismata. Church Fathers centuries after the birth of Christianity believed that magic and sorcery by non-Christians was real. Read how it was believed that Simon Magnus could levitate for example. That outlook of accepting supernaturalism continues unchanged for many and seems immune from growth in scientific knowledge.

Our religion as it happens did not have this acceptance of ongoing miracles and mocked those who did. But, at least when I was young, they still believed demons could make things and people do things supernatural. It's just another example of a church carving out a unique identity.

14

2013 New World Translation

by Jerome56 in

on their website in the video "organizational accomplishments" watchtower devotes this segment to praising the superiority of the new world translation.

about half way through, david splane relates the reason for a change in wording from the old 1984 nwt reference bible to the 2013 revised nwt.

he said this was because of the recent discovery of an older manuscript that contained the greek word for overseer that was unavailable when the reference bible was being compiled.

peacefulpete

The role of translator is not only to convert one word to another but choose words that the translator believes reflects the author's meaning.

Take this 1 Peter 5:2 for example. The word (episkopeó) is used twice in the NT and means "be watchful" . If you wish to add a shade of meaning you could use the English word "oversee" which carries the connotation of authority over or you could use a more neutral word like watchful or careful like the NWT does at Hebrews 12:15.

The NWT is hardly unique in doing this, but few readers would be aware that the two verses use the same word. That is one simple example of of the tiny role translating has in perpetuating a church identity. Ultimately the identity is formed by personalities and circumstances and merely bolstered by the translation used.

The WT today using computer software could create a new translation in short order. Motives for a new translation are probably twofold, raise revenue selling millions of new Bibles and projecting an image as a scholarly religion.

14

2013 New World Translation

by Jerome56 in

on their website in the video "organizational accomplishments" watchtower devotes this segment to praising the superiority of the new world translation.

about half way through, david splane relates the reason for a change in wording from the old 1984 nwt reference bible to the 2013 revised nwt.

he said this was because of the recent discovery of an older manuscript that contained the greek word for overseer that was unavailable when the reference bible was being compiled.

peacefulpete

Worrying about which translation to use is a bit of a red herring. For the WT it merely perpetuates the narrative of being a "bible based" religion. In reality religions are about community and Identity. Us or them, being inside or outside.

All Christian religions use the same book and yet have different doctrine. Doctrine merely serves to differentiate one group from the others. Few members care about the doctrinal details, in fact it can change over time. As long as it is different, it works.

Translations play a very small role in this. JWs were JWs long before making their own translation. It was basically a pet project of F. Franz that cemented his reputation for being a 'scholar' among JWs. In reality anyone can make a new translation using reference works and following the lead of the preexisting translations. There really isn't much in the NWT that precedents can't be pointed to by someone with similar theological outlook on a particular topic. Don't get drawn into believing the NWT is the issue, it's not any worse than most others, it's just different.