Well, that really isn't the case. Many spirits were assumed minor powers, many were thought of as mischievous and with unique abilities other than ours to cause trouble but not all powerful. Polytheism/henotheism essentially means that there was no all-powerful. Power was distributed around as agents of countless phenomenon. Eventually the philosophically literate had a problem with their deity being less than everything and imagined a single all-in-one God. We happen to come from a culture with that theology, but even today the majority of the world has more than one deity/spirit.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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US SOLE DISSENTING "VETO" VOTE ON UN COUNCIL TO PREVENT PALESTINIAN UN MEMBERSHIP!!!
by Golden4Altar inus sole dissenting "veto" vote on un council to prevent palestinian un membership!!!.
the obvious wickedness of usa .
on world wide display!.
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peacefulpete
As passionately as we all wish for a resolution to the situation in Palestine, sometimes we just don't have enough of the facts to be able to understand a complex situation.
U.S. deputy ambassador Robert Wood told the Security Council that the veto “does not reflect opposition to Palestinian statehood but instead is an acknowledgment that it will only come from direct negotiations between the parties."
The United States has “been very clear consistently that premature actions in New York — even with the best intentions — will not achieve statehood for the Palestinian people,” deputy State Department spokesman Vedant Patel said.
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
Blondie...they simply ignore the fundamental issue, by directing attention away from the contradiction. If a god has the ability to see the future and know all, the pronouncement of judgement ought never need be reversed. Such a being would only need to change his judgement if he failed to give the matter his full attention.
An alternative available to believers is as Jeremiah suggested wherein pronouncements of judgement are actually just threats or possibilities that God can reverse at whim, like a potter doing what he wants to clay.
Halcon...Belief in spirits (in objects or in actions like wind) is the product of inferential logic. When nothing readily visible accounts for an action or growth, something invisible must. These invisible agents naturally took the form of the visible animals and people the mind is familiar with. The ability to reason inferentially is vital for survival, but often leads to incorrect conclusions when the causative factor is less than obvious. My clever dog has inferential reasoning. When the wind blows and slams a door he barks assuming someone came in. Who knows how his mind explains the fact that he sees no one. He might be clever enough to imagine invisible someones.
Religion, while involving spirits, at it's core is an attempt to control the uncontrollable. Rites and ritual combine with story as a way to tame the natural world and threats to safety. As was said it didn't take long for entrepreneuring/delusional individuals proclaimed themselves experts aka shamans. I'm also pretty sure my dog worships me as a means to end. Cuddling up and acting cute when he wants me to open the fridge door.
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Do you recognize the Truth? Watchtower July, 2024
by Listener inthe stated focus of this study article is.
focustraining ourselves to discern the difference between the truth we have learned from jehovah and the falsehoods promoted by satan and our opposers.. of course, the article goes on to claim that the truth is not only in the bible, but also from the watchtower organization.
the first of two qualities needed to discern truth is -.
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peacefulpete
But in the days when the book of Acts was written, had they already witnessed a century of false predictions?
Yes. Well close to it. When Acts was written there was already a huge diversity of Christianities (a half dozen or so sects are cleverly referenced) and many of them evolved specifically due to the failure of the promised end. In fact, Acts was written in response to this. The focus had shifted from imminent judgement of the nations to forgiveness of sins and resurrection. The only brief mention of Jesus' return I can recall is the cryptically worded Acts 1:11 that lent to a multitude of interpretations.
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Do you recognize the Truth? Watchtower July, 2024
by Listener inthe stated focus of this study article is.
focustraining ourselves to discern the difference between the truth we have learned from jehovah and the falsehoods promoted by satan and our opposers.. of course, the article goes on to claim that the truth is not only in the bible, but also from the watchtower organization.
the first of two qualities needed to discern truth is -.
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peacefulpete
nowwhat....The reference to Berean Jews in Acts serves the exact same purpose for the author as the WT comments about having an eagerness to accept what they say and their interpretation of scriptures, as they are speaking God's 'thoughts'. The reference to 'searching' the scriptures is not suggestive of careful contextual critical analysis but the process of following along with the proof texting and becoming convinced of this new take on the verses. This eagerness to adopt the new interpretation of the scriptures, shared by the writer of the book of Acts, is what earned these characters the flattering description, 'noble-minded'.
In both the WT and Acts what is encouraged is eagerness to accept how the church leaders interpret scriptures.
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
Maybe the issue is that, over time, we have defined the Biblical god in ways that aren't consistent with his words and actions as described in the Bible.
Or, the 'words and actions described in the Bible' aren't 'consistent'. This either reflects a changing perception of God or a changing God.
I noticed no one touched the idea of using Jeremiah to explain the 2000 year 'delay', maybe God changed his mind.
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
Sea breeze....An example of an unconditional declaration of God is the Lord’s promise to David, “Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever” (2 Samuel 7:16). No conditions were stated or implied. No matter what David did or did not do, the word of the Lord would come to pass.
That is actually a classic example of later redaction changing what appears in some texts as unconditional into a conditional statement after the Exile.
Psalm 132:
The Lord swore an oath to David,
a sure oath he will not revoke:
“One of your own descendants
I will place on your throne."Then we see the promise modified in the next verse:
If your sons keep my covenant
and the statutes I teach them,
then their sons will sit
on your throne for ever and ever.Similarly, 1 Kings 2, in contrast to 2 Samuel, makes clear the author understood the promise to be conditional:
When David’s time to die was near, he told his son Solomon, 2 “I am going the way of all the earth. So be strong. Show yourself to be a man. 3 Do what the Lord your God tells you. Walk in His ways. Keep all His Laws and His Word, by what is written in the Law of Moses. Then you will do well in all that you do and in every place you go. 4 Then the Lord will keep His promise to me. He has said to me, ‘Your sons must be careful of their way, to walk before Me in truth with all their heart and soul. If they do, you will never be without a man on the throne of Israel.’
It is a fine example of how when the exile occurred many of the previous national traditions were reinterpreted or modified.
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
The Jonah story naturally comes to mind. The message of the obvious satire is that if only Jonah had not been successful in converting Ninevah, the Assyrians would never have conquered Israel. For God was determined to destroy Ninevah, the later capital of the Assyrian empire and birthplace of Sennacherib. The Persian period author was a master humorist. He likely intended to frame the story around the probably historical prophet Jonah of Israel who according to 2 Kings advised the Baal worshipping King Jeroboam II to pursue an expanded kingdom when Assyria was occupied with rebellions elsewhere. The very actions that triggered a retaking of Israel by Sennacherib. It's all an obvious parody with giant fish, brooding prophets, miraculous shade plants, caricatures of piety (including fasting cattle) and Yahweh worshiping Ninevites.
I my opinion, this piece may have served the theological purpose of mocking the notion of national uniqueness and divine justice. The Persian period when this was written saw many of the Jewish literati struggling with these concepts.
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56
Can God Change his Mind?
by peacefulpete inis 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.
does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.
when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
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peacefulpete
Is 31:Yet He also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract His words.
1 Sam 15: Furthermore, the Eternal One of Israel does not lie or change His mind, for He is not man who changes his mind.
Numbers 23: God is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes His mind. Does He speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?
When the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?
The prophets of course do the actual pronouncements, purportedly speaking for a god. What happens when the pronouncements of judgement do not happen? This was an issue for prophets. Were they to be denounced as "false" prophets? Was the prophetic pronouncement of judgement open to reinterpretation? Or perhaps the pronouncement's failure was not a prophet's failure but due to God's changing his mind?
Is that how you think of God? Someone who pronounces judgement without all the evidence and so he is given to changing his mind later?
Despite absolute statements like the opening quotations, the Bible is filled with examples of pronounced judgements that did not happen. In some particularly anthropomorphic cases this is because God is flattered and manipulated into changing his judgement. In other cases, the explanation is offered that the person or nation repented and therefore God changed his mind, taking back his words of judgement.
Doesn't this strike you as a very human thing to do? We have a system of justice that usually works adequately but is limited by our inability to "read hearts", know all things accurately and foresee the future. Judgements are overturned when it is learned that a sentence was pronounced based upon incomplete evidence. Is God similarly limited?
Jeremiah 18 famously reads:
6 “O Israel, can I not do to you as this potter has done to his clay? As the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand. 7 If I announce that a certain nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down, and destroyed, 8 but then that nation renounces its evil ways, I will not destroy it as I had planned. 9 And if I announce that I will plant and build up a certain nation or kingdom, 10 but then that nation turns to evil and refuses to obey me, I will not bless it as I said I would.
Clearly here the author tried to walk a fine line, his and earlier prophets' pronouncements of judgment and blessing were intended to be understood as possibilities, pending future, more complete, evidence.
IOW "God's judgements are certain to happen, but.........."
So then, 2000 years or so have passed since the pronouncement of imminent destruction of the nations of the world.
Might not someone conclude that God "changed his mind" and not do as he "had planned"?
Could this be a solution for sects like the WT? Simply emphasize passages like Jeremiah 18 and suggest God was impressed by the progress humans have made enough to postpone his plans to destroy them.
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"Everyone Wants To Leave"
by NotFormer ina thread about steve hassan re-emerged and got me looking him up.
his wikipedia entry had a point under "criticism" that there is an underlying assumption in his approach that all members of high control groups ultimately want to leave*.. while it is generally believed that there are a lot of pimos still attending, doing field service and giving lip service to the wt, i doubt that everyone within the congregations want to get out.
it's not always internally and logically consistent, but it's been around long enough for enough workarounds to make it tolerable to emerge.. what do you think?
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peacefulpete
Everyone wishes it was true. Some still hold onto the hope
Both my wife and I deeply wished it was not true, because it was a horrific concept. Killing billions so that some few, who we knew all too well were just ordinary people no more worthy than anyone else. It was such a relief to learn it was all a sick delusion.