Graffito of a crucified person.
Ἀλκίμιλα is written top left.
EDR178207. H. 0.35.
Ἀλκίμιλα is written top left.
EDR178207. H. 0.35.
Photo: Camodeca 2018, p. 207. dated 110-140 ce
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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43
Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?
by Sea Breeze indominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.
information packed.
interesting take on paganism as well.
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43
Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?
by Sea Breeze indominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.
information packed.
interesting take on paganism as well.
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peacefulpete
Regarding the use of 'pagan' symbols, remember the Hezekiah seal?
Unsurprisingly it contained the Egyptian ankh.
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43
Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?
by Sea Breeze indominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.
information packed.
interesting take on paganism as well.
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peacefulpete
I mentioned symbolism of "suspension", aka crucifixion. Note Philo's metaphoric/symbolic language associated with the practice.
......for it follows of necessity, that the body must be thought akin to the souls that love the body, and that external good things must be exceedingly admired by them, and all the souls which have this kind of disposition depend on dead things, and, like persons who are crucified, are attached to corruptible matter till the day of their death. (62) But the soul that is united to virtue has for its inhabitants those persons who are preeminent for virtue, persons whom the double cavern has received in pairs, Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebeckah, Leah and Jacob, virtues and those who possess them; Chebron itself keeping the treasure-house of the memorials of knowledge and wisdom, which is more ancient than Janis and the whole land of Egypt, for nature has made the soul more ancient than the body, that is than Egypt, and virtue more ancient than vice, that is than Janis (and the name Janis, being interpreted, means the command of answer), estimating seniority rather by dignity than by length of time.
Crucifixion had taken on a moral/philosophical meaning beyond the obvious OT connotation of humiliation and curse.
Early Gnostic Christians retained a similar view. Some allegorized the Logos/primal man descending to a lower state as a crucifixion.
These early theologies are easiest explained as a continuum of earlier Jewish thought.
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43
Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?
by Sea Breeze indominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.
information packed.
interesting take on paganism as well.
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peacefulpete
Seabreeze....Alleged Christian Crosses in Herculaneum and Pompeii on JSTOR
The cruciform indentation in a wall of Herculaneum was probably left by the support for a shelf.
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7
Derek Ohare was murdered. R.I.P dear friend
by Newly Enlightened inhttps://youtu.be/667n4uwbk4e?si=1dvek-qfw7ebf9up.
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peacefulpete
Tragic.
I recall in the 70's this style of exJw activism was more common. Hardly a convention didn't have someone calling out on the sidewalk. I have to believe it worked at least for some. I recall, "Mr Coffee" (and half and half) spent years out front the WT headquarters pointedly calling out what he saw as hypocrisy.
Then again as JWs we did the identical thing standing in a public setting calling out to passersby that the end was near. The politically correct age we live in makes these methods seem dated and even wrong. What's wrong is staying quiet when something needs to be said.
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43
Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?
by Sea Breeze indominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.
information packed.
interesting take on paganism as well.
-
-
-
43
Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?
by Sea Breeze indominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.
information packed.
interesting take on paganism as well.
-
-
peacefulpete
Phizzy....IMO the generally ambiguous references to the death, even the ambiguous terminology, all contribute to the theological development of the story.
First off there was no specific noun or verb that differentiated the Roman (or earlier) use of a two or more piece implement for execution (or postmortem public suspension). Therefore, insisting that the words used have any particular narrow definition is bringing something to the text. (unless the context makes clear what the author is describing.) All relevant terminology appears to have had usage beyond the simple etymology of the words. Such is typical of language.
As Phizzy pointed out, there is a larger question in play. Given the pre-Christian symbolism of public execution and suspension (on tree, pole) we have to consider whether the earliest pre-Gospel Christians had the Roman execution methods in mind at all. For example, Doherty's thesis concludes that at the foundation of Christianity is a passion play in the spirit realm that was euhemerized in the Gospel story through use of OT typology and the contemporary Roman domination of Israel. Without further expansion on this thought, I'll suggest that this is consistent with the issue under discussion. The NT has the concept of 'suspension' (with theological implications) foremost, not the particular shape of the implement, though in some contexts it seems clear they had a cross in mind.
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43
Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?
by Sea Breeze indominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.
information packed.
interesting take on paganism as well.
-
-
peacefulpete
The main conclusion regarding the terminology of crucifixion is that there does not appear to be any terminology of crucifixion — before the death of Jesus. All the mentioned terms share a crucial feature: none of them can be determined to mean “to crucify” or “cross” — by themselves. If this conclusion is correct, the majority of scholars have used an unsatisfactory method in their process of text selection. It is better to let the absence of fixed terminology illuminate the absence of a fixed punishment.
In short, he spends much time demonstrating just how the NT descriptions (albeit brief and implied) have colored interpretations of many other texts and resulted in unwarranted assumptions.
He concludes that it is most likely that at least some NT writers had a cross shaped implement in mind from expressions like stretch out arms, sign above head, nails in hands, and likely the carrying of the patibulum. This plus the evidence that the cross shape was in use in the first century, despite the WT claims otherwise.
However, as PioneerSchmioneer points out he also concludes that the symbolism of death by suspension had greater theological significance that seems to have dominated the conversation for most writers.
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129
Is there “new light” on 1914?
by wallsofjericho ini’m hearing paraphrasing like “we just don’t know” .
is this regarding 1914?
or micheal the arch angel?.
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peacefulpete
I'd love to meet scholar. The shear dedication to this role is worthy of an Emmy. If you have a forum like this without someone repeatedly playing the WT foil to exJWs the discussions become uninteresting and unchallenging.
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43
Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?
by Sea Breeze indominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.
information packed.
interesting take on paganism as well.
-
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peacefulpete
It is a bit funny how the guy sees no anachronism in the use of the Babylonian calendar in the story about Noah. Remember there was only "one language", Hebrew, in all the earth at that time according to Genesis.
In reality the stories were redacted and compiled in the 6th-5th centuries BCE, a time when the Babylonian culture was pervasive.
