peacefulpete

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Posts by peacefulpete

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  50

  Are the teachings of JW—consistent?

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would belief so but if you can point something out, it can be discussed.. i don’t mean what jw taught in the past that they later realized was not correct and amended.

  —unless you think and can show something like that is relevant.. i’ve spoken to a lot of believers from different religions.

  i don’t want to bash any religion here under this topic but their beliefs are inconsistent and their reasons are sophistry and made up and grounded on circular reasoning.

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  peacefulpete

  Catholicism is generally internally logical, Lutheranism, Calvinism etc....

  That's what makes them "religions".

  Objections are whether they represent reality or are healthful belief systems, not whether they can tell a good story.
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  16

  Our First Christmas Tree

  by Queequeg in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  early on, after we left jw land, my wife said to me, “i hope you don’t care, but i don’t ever see myself doing any christmas stuff.

  i don’t really understand why some ex jws decide to do that crap.” we agreed that parties were a little different because of the social aspects, but other wise i didn’t care.

  now… there’s a 16’ douglas fir with ornaments and lights in our living room.

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  peacefulpete

  Queequeg...Wonderful story. We too owe a lot to a wonderful couple and the circle of friends they introduced us to. We were building our house and hadn't installed a furnace or much of anything other than bare floors and insulation. We spent the night there to get as much done as possible sleeping on the floor on a pile of blankets. That couple came over and gave us our first Xmas tree, a 2 foot tall prewired little thing. We still have it and use it every year tho I've rewired it a few years ago. We also have a 6ft tree, I got one this year from the woods behind my grandfather's old cabin, with permission from the present owner of course. Every year my wife and I get a new special ornament. Friends have been giving us ornaments to the point we now have a couple boxes full. Never too late to start new traditions or make new friends.
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  50

  Are the teachings of JW—consistent?

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would belief so but if you can point something out, it can be discussed.. i don’t mean what jw taught in the past that they later realized was not correct and amended.

  —unless you think and can show something like that is relevant.. i’ve spoken to a lot of believers from different religions.

  i don’t want to bash any religion here under this topic but their beliefs are inconsistent and their reasons are sophistry and made up and grounded on circular reasoning.

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  peacefulpete

  ...consistent, and” jive” like the 4 gospels, logical, reasonable, plausible and just make sense and appeal to the mind...

  I'm guessing you never read the Gospels?
  
  
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  27

  Watchtower Study : Jehovah Is Helping You To Succeed

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtower—study edition | january 2023. study article 3. jehovah is helping you to succeed.

  how jehovah makes you successful.

  13. does jehovah intervene in every situation we face?

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  peacefulpete

  Some of your comments might lead a reader to think you believe JWs are incapable of loving each other. Surely we all mourned for lost JW friends who passed. We all saw JWs helping other JWs when they saw a need to. We all visited sick friends in the hospital.

  Sure the church was negligent in caring for physical needs in any organized manner and yes love was complicated by the environment of sectarian isolation, but JWs are still people who love and are loved.

  I remember, and always will, when an elderly lady in our congo had her house (shack on stilts) collapse I organized a day to have it put back up. I had JW volunteers from villages far away that I didn't even know.

  When a 5 year old boy was killed in a car accident we had a funeral wherein every eye was crying, even the speaker kept breaking down.

  I'm quite certain that most of us still grieve to some extent over the loss of companionship and family of those who shun us. And I'm sure it is true the other way around, they grieve for us.

  I'm not defending the church, I'm defending the victims in it.
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  89

  Myth of 1914

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

  millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

  take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

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  peacefulpete

  Fish...take some time reviewing the SDA solution. They clung to 1833 and 1844 and still do but they invented a new period of judgement to fill the void. The still hold the judgment began in 1844 and that those that were alive then have been irrevocably judged. They simply say the judgement period continues on till closed at some point in near future. They decoupled the mini apocalypse of the Gospels from their Daniel and Revelation interpretations. Dates are not that important , it just takes some creativity to move forward after failure. It's an interesting sociological study learning how churches have adapted from their own short sighted beginnings.
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  89

  Myth of 1914

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

  millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

  take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

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  peacefulpete

  OK, the comments I made a few posts before should be clarified for the sake of accuracy. I had too many tabs open and conflated some of what I was reading. i guess the SDA have dropped the whole sign of the end thing and see it as referring to only Jerusalem. according to this article,

  (https://adventist.news/news/expert-explains-about-plagues-armageddon-and-jesus-return?searchsite=www.adventist.org&ref=on-site-search&searchterm=matthew+24%3A34&_gl=1*n7mx5y*_ga*MjA0Nzk1ODA2MS4xNjcxMTMxMjA5*_ga_2VBYH6KEBQ*MTY3MTEzMTIwOC4xLjEuMTY3MTEzMTg4My4wLjAuMA..&_ga=2.135503864.855966133.1671131210-2047958061.1671131209)

  they see only the sign of the son of man as the sole sign of the end days. That makes the 'generation' declaration seem as fulfilled in entirety. A tidy solution.
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  27

  Watchtower Study : Jehovah Is Helping You To Succeed

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtower—study edition | january 2023. study article 3. jehovah is helping you to succeed.

  how jehovah makes you successful.

  13. does jehovah intervene in every situation we face?

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  peacefulpete

  I can see Jehovah’s loving hand throughout my son’s illness

  That is actually a profoundly truthful statement. Religious belief is the ability to see God's hand in anything, even tragedy. It is a perceptional lens that, when working, is unfalsifiable.
  When we were on a missionary trip we saw God's hand in the availability of a house for us to stay in. Later that house turned out to be flood prone and underwater half the year, we saw it as a test that God helped us over come rather than reconsider our initial conclusion.
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  89

  Myth of 1914

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

  millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

  take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

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  peacefulpete

  Slimboy...If you were responding to my comment, I was just mentioning the SDA growth as a response to the doctrinal stance. It didn't make a whit of difference. These churches have survived the vulnerable stages and are here to stay. Those who envision a collapse of the WT over 1914 do not have history in their favor. These groups plod along making slight adjustments but have essentially created their own subcultures within the societies they exist. I know ancient religions have passed but usually because the societies they existed in were erased or subsumed by political means. If America and it's allies were conquered by Russia for a modern example, the WT, SDA and LDS would likely disappear, not really wishing for that to happen. lol
• 
  89

  Myth of 1914

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

  millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

  take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

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  peacefulpete

  The SDA example is perhaps suggestive of what the result would be if they altered their doctrine. I found an article from 1989 that 'resolved' the failure of the end to appear in the "generation" of the 1833 falling stars etc. Many SDA's had found ways to reinterpret the word 'generation' through the years without arriving at a satisfying permanent solution. The 1989 article simply offered that prophecy was "dynamic" and God, while remaining unchanged in his determination, can alter his specific plan at will. They used "seeming" failed prophecies in the OT as examples of this. In this way the prediction remains on the books but becomes unfalsifiable/undisprovable. Their growth since then hasn't been unusually good nor any worse than the decades before 1989. They presently claim to have about 21 million members.

  The WT overlapping generations approach to resolve the same issue seems less efficient. It is similarly unfalsifiable in that it can perpetuate indefinitely, but it awkwardly strains the wording of that one passage and leaves one feeling unsatisfied and confused. The SDA approach IMO is functionally superior, in that it appears to be taking a 'rational' flexible approach to prophecy as a whole. Much harder to argue against.

  I don't see much really changing no matter what they eventually do. I know I've said it many times, but IMO doctrine just differentiates one church group from other churches it's less important for recruitment or retention of membership. That is the result of a welcoming sense of community and group identity. True sometimes specific unusual doctrine becomes inseparable from identity, (like Armstrong's WWC of God with Sabbath and faith healing) and a change would precipitates a serious loss of membership. For the WT it might be their 'earth paradise' doctrine or their ant-trinitarianism. But peripheral stuff like this can be accommodated easily as the numerous previous changes in the WT teaching about 1914/18 over the years has shown.

  Again, IMO, they need to address this festering wound. Either the approach of the SDA would work or some other open ended rational sounding way to diminish the importance of the 607/1914 dates is necessary.
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  2

  Bit of Watchtower History

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably some of you read uncle b's history blog.

  the article at the end of this link was contributed to show rutherford's activity in britain, especially his appearances at royal albert hall.. https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2022/12/the-royal-albert-hall.html.

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  peacefulpete

  Too bad the blog doesn't include the speeches so people can learn what was said at those lectures. The failed explicit prophesies don't age well.