Posts by tornapart

19

For the ones who believe in Bible - What does the scriptures here imply on subjection to religious leaders? - Hebrews 13:17-19, 22-25

by MissConfused in

do we really need an organization and need to be in subjection to it as god always chose leaders (abhraham, moses, jesus, apostles)?

what are your thoughts?

how can you reason this out?.

tornapart

I would agree with DD about the bible commentaries. You can find some on biblehub.com. Some interesting understandings on the greek words used for obedience and submission.

I always think of the example of Aaron. Used in a recent WT study as an example of a man put in a position of leadership by God himself. Of course it was used as an example that we must 'obey' and 'follow' our leaders as if we were following God.

However, what did Aaron do for the people while Moses was away? He created a Golden Calf for them to worship. What did God think of that? Was he pleased with the Israelites for what Aaron had done for them?

Then I think to the WT. What have they done while their master Christ is away? They have had to create something visible for them to follow... a new Golden Calf.

Paul himself said in his letters that the disciples were NOT to follow him, Cephas or Apollos or anyone else... only Christ. These sherpherds were there merely to look after and protect. Not to become Lords and Masters.

If they do exactly as Christ commanded and care for his sheep in the proper manner, looking after them and caring for them, then they receive our respect.

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

tornapart

No! It's not ok Cofty, however he has apologised for that and tried to explain why he used it. I'm sure he would take it back if he could, unfortunately on this forum there is only a 30 min window to rectify something you regret writing.

I just feel it's a shame that atheists and theists have to fight with each other over words when there's so much more valuable things to said and appreciated on both sides.

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

tornapart

This thread had an awesome start. How to get JWs thinking outside the box. Isn't that what we all want to do?

How many of us, believers and non believers have beloved family members trapped inside a mind controlling religion? Don't we want to use methods like Christian Guy used to get them thinking?

If it then gets derailed into an 'atheist v theist' slanging match then what good will that accomplish for any of us?

We need posters like Christian Guy, who obviously knows his bible really well and knows how to use it with great effect. Those JWs will have gone away and his words will remain in their minds for a long time and one day they may wake up and realise that what he said to them planted seeds in their mind. It happened to me. As a pioneer, I called on people who planted seeds in my mind and even now can vividly recall the conversations because they struck a cord with me.

Give Christian Guy a break guys.

14

Guilty and Stupid

by Ucantnome in

whenever i post on this site i feel really guilty and stupid.

i think after i post that's it i'm never posting again (probably be a good idea) .

does anyone else feel like this?

tornapart

Yeah, LOL ... I make a post and think it's rubbish and not worth anything. Everybody is so much more eloquent than me and have so much more better things to say. Then I think someone I know will find out I've made hundreds of posts on here and I'll be in deep water. The I say, that'll be my last post... but is it ever?! LOL... this place is too addictive.

26

Should I ''respect'' Bible and Koran believers?

by ThomasCovenant in

believers in the koran/islam, that's all of them, not just so called extremists, believe that i, as an unbeliever, will be the fuel for the fires of hell.

that's nice.. they, along with all bible believers, worship a god who is, according to his written publications, a right bastard.

i despise their god/s.. i find that i do not respect their beliefs.. i cannot help but think that when all the philosophical talking of this, that and the other is done, they're just idiots.. i, on my down days, find that i do not respect them as human beings.

tornapart

@DD

26

Should I ''respect'' Bible and Koran believers?

by ThomasCovenant in

believers in the koran/islam, that's all of them, not just so called extremists, believe that i, as an unbeliever, will be the fuel for the fires of hell.

that's nice.. they, along with all bible believers, worship a god who is, according to his written publications, a right bastard.

i despise their god/s.. i find that i do not respect their beliefs.. i cannot help but think that when all the philosophical talking of this, that and the other is done, they're just idiots.. i, on my down days, find that i do not respect them as human beings.

tornapart

Beliefs a person holds shapes them into that person they are. If the beliefs they hold have shaped them into a good, kind, loving person (regardless of what God they believe in, or no God at all), then I will respect their beliefs too.

If their beliefs have turned them into a self-righteous bigot, then no, I don't respect those beliefs.

8

YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR LIES!

by The Searcher in

the following examples only serve to illustrate that when you assume total control over what people are told to believe, then be prepared to be exposed and ridiculed as liars, charlatans, and offspring of vipers when your perverted teachings crumble when held up to the real bible truth!

"now may the god of peace, who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an everlasting covenant, our lord jesus.

" (hebrews 13:20) "and i will conclude with them a covenant of peace; an indefinitely lasting covenant.

tornapart

Nice reasoning Searcher. I've found that too when there are things in the bible they completely overlook. I got my husband to read a well known verse the other day. He had to read it 3 times before he 'saw' the point. The part of the verse we were indoctrinated with made the other part 'disappear'. I had to ask questions to get him to 'see' the overlooked part. Once he saw it, he went silent. (Which he does when something hits home).

The bible is a great tool to show up WT teachings for the lies they are. Fortunately JWs hold the bible in high esteem and as the final authority. If there is an obvious contradiction the cognitive dissonance sets in. Then they have to either make a choice as to whether they believe the bible or the WT or else carry on burying the contradictions.

30

My decision to openly greet df persons in the hall

by Daniel1555 in

jw
friends

at the moment i am still going to all the meetings (for family reasons).. we have at the moment 1 df person who regularly comes (already df for 1.5 years).. when i opened him the door i always greeted him but in the hall i didn't as others could see it.. now i decided that my conscience can not bear this any longer.

i will greet him also in the hall or when others are around.. if any elders notice it and talk to me, i tell them my conscience does not allow to not greet that person.. did any of you do that too and have some experiences?.

tornapart

I've always done it even when fully in. If I saw them in the hall and had eye contact I would always give a warm smile and a hello if I was close enough. If I met them in the street I would too and on some occasions even stop and ask how they were. I always thought it extremely rude to ignore someone and my own conscience never allowed me to do it. No one ever pulled me up on it.

67

This Tired, Lonely Man

by compound complex in

this tired, lonely man has been snared, but i protest little .

she holds me tenderly in her tightening but welcome thrall.

i cave willingly -- oh, so willingly -- to her amatory attentions.

tornapart

That well describes how I feel when that warm summer sun and birdsong, fresh air, green grass and wind rustling through the leaves of trees is gone.

The clocks go back and the nights draw in and I just long to be a hedgehog! Snuggled in his nest, asleep for the long cold winter and dark nights.

To wake up when the birds begin to sing again and life is once more vibrant.

Keep dreaming dear Coco!

122

Can the jw organization be reformed?

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.

there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.

i don't feel like that anymore.

tornapart

I read a lot of the articles on 'anointedjw.org' and these brothers are working towards a reform of some kind. It seems that there is some success 'from the bottom up' as LaFrancia said. There seems to be a large number of JWs waking up to the problems amiss in the organisation and are beginning to speak out.

Will it actually work to tip the balance? I'm not sure if doctrinally it will. However I can also see problems financially. Because of the economic situation brothers just can't afford to give much anymore. If the governments decide to forgo the tax exemption it could mean trouble. If the R&F see the WTS struggling financially it could lead to a breakdown.