londo111 » each congregation has a “talk coordinator”.
talk coordinators will coordinate with other talk coordinators in order to find speakers to give the public talk on sunday.
typically, they come from the general area: the circuit or a nearby circuit.
ColdSteel:
Perhaps the LDS church is a better environment than the JWs and has nowhere near the extreme control. Since I'm never been, I cannot say.
However, the way you describe former Mormons (and their websites, books, ect...) sounds allot like how many JWs would describe former JWs, including this forum here.
i thought this deserved its own topic.
it is a thought that occurred to me as i read the wt rag that i took to be polite.. it is the public one about the 4 horseman, and it struck me that they are still 100% reliant on their false 1914 doctrine to hang everything on.. if 1914 is proved wrong, what can the credibility of their doomsday message hang on ?.
we all know how to disprove the old 2520 years nonsense, but they seem to at last be hiding that, and simply claiming that world events prove jesus slung the devil out of heaven in 1914.. so, what has that old devil done since 1914, 103 years ago ?.
Indeed. 1914 is the key to the entire theology. That mountains of evidence that prove 587 BC as opposed to 607 blow the 2520 year equation out the water. The improving world conditions show these have been the best time humanity has ever had...whatever problems there are, in the past, prior to the 20th century, they were a whole lot worse. People in the middle ages had a better case for being in the last days.
Of course, without 1914, the year 1919 becomes insignificant as well. And it deals a huge blow to the idea that Jesus appointed the leaders of the Watchtower as his "faithful slave". The Governing Body's claim to authority is rendered meaningless.
londo111 » each congregation has a “talk coordinator”.
talk coordinators will coordinate with other talk coordinators in order to find speakers to give the public talk on sunday.
typically, they come from the general area: the circuit or a nearby circuit.
If it were some sort of Bible study with the intent to convert the non-JWs, perhaps it would be okay. But only two JWs would be able to "count their time".
However, even a one-time meetup of independent Bible research, if come to attention of the elders, would likely result in them talking to the person. And a mixed theological discussion (JWs and non-JWS) might be viewed as "interfaith": a huge no no.
A non-religious meetup (book club,ect) would not bear that kind of stigma. However, most likely, a JW would be counseled at having unnecessary association with non-JWs and 1 Corinthians 15:33 would be trotted out.
few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.
it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.
it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?
From my observation, being an elder is allot of hard work, way more than the load of what the rank-and-file active publisher bears. That kind of stress might drive anyone nuts.
As the Bible says, “Mere oppression makes the wise one act crazy.” And we’ve established the elders aren’t very wise…so imagine what it does to them!
londo111 » each congregation has a “talk coordinator”.
talk coordinators will coordinate with other talk coordinators in order to find speakers to give the public talk on sunday.
typically, they come from the general area: the circuit or a nearby circuit.
To copy and past what I wrote on the other discussion:
As the September 2007 Kingdom Ministry says:
“Does ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate? No, it does not …“the faithful and discreet slave” does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight."
few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.
it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.
it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?
Ah...I've seen people post about it.
Of course, the cult mechanism shut that down very quick.
so i spoke to my elder dad the other day, and he asked if i still am sporting a beard.
i said yes, then i said, "i thought the society said its ok to have a neat trimmed beard now?
" he said "no, no, no..if you read the article , it says in countries where it is accepted" so my response was "ummm, its pretty accepted here in america"..which he says "it reflects your spirituality" "if another wittness saw you, they would know you are weak"...i was like, "ok, i don't get it, and i follow christ/god, not men..." then he said in his hall" if a brother came in with a beard , he would not have privelages" then i just gave up, and tried to change the subject..ugggggggggg if these people would just listen to themselves , they would see the sillyness of there teachings...
Agree with jp1692.
How flimsy a faith if it can be overturned by someone's facial hair?
just wanted to say hello and thank you for all of your comments.
when i finally figured out this was not the truth it was nice to know i wasn't the only one - it was a surprise to learn how many there are.
february was my last month of service after 43 active years.
Congrats on both you and your spouse waking up!
few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.
it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.
it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?
I wasn’t an elder, but my father and both grandfathers were.
This is how the arrangement works. Every congregation has an approved list of who has the “privilege” of giving public talks, and this list is regulated by the body of elders. The public speaker can either be an elder or a ministerial servant.
Each congregation has a “talk coordinator”. Talk coordinators will coordinate with other talk coordinators in order to find speakers to give the public talk on Sunday. Typically, they come from the general area: the circuit or a nearby circuit. So it would not be possible for a stranger to show up on Sunday and give a talk.
Even the content of the public talk does not originate with the one giving it. The content comes from Headquarters in New York. Basically, Watchtower gives dozens of outlines, and a speaker must select or be given one of those. While there is some room for variation, basically the speaker must deliver the points of the outline, albeit in their own words. Even circuit overseers are given outlines…although they have more freedom for variation.
The same holds true for circuit assemblies and district (or now regional) conventions. In fact, at a convention the speaker is given a manuscript and they must deliver it word for word.
There would never be any “fireside”. At least, not at the Kingdom Hall. There would only be the scheduled meetings Watchtower has directed. Extra meetings are a no no. There is a rare exception, but the visitor would have to be a missionary or someone from Bethel…it would not be a stranger. Perhaps use of the kingdom hall to watch some of the Society’s videos would be okay too.
Some sort of meeting outside the Kingdom Hall would be highly unlikely. I believe if a stranger showed up claiming expertise in something, inviting JWs to hear him speak, they would be very very suspicious, as well wary that this is an apostate. Independent meetings and study groups are a no no—even if pro JW all the way.
As the September 2007 Kingdom Ministry says:
“Does ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate? No, it does not …“the faithful and discreet slave” does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight."
Therefore, because of such a control structure from Watchtower headquarters, such a scenario you mentioned would be highly unlikely.
few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.
it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.
it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?
Watchtower has not discussed every verse in the Bible, but that really doesn’t matter in the end. They’ve a creed that must be adhered to, even though they would deny they have a creed. Of course, Watchtower denies interpreting the Bible at all. That is what “Christendom” does.
But what happens if you don’t believe an interpretation? That could well be apostasy. And if you speak it aloud? That could easily land a person in a judicial committee. Thus a person would not be “waylaid” by one elder, but pulled into the backroom with three elders. The results could be your family, friends, acquaintances, you entire community and social network shunning you, not saying so much as hello if they see you on the street.
“Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
Even if it is not theological in nature, say a person pointed out cases where the Governing Body change their teachings from their own publications, or show where they became a NGO of the UN. That would be called “causing divisions”. Same result.
I suppose if you said that the “new light” was what you’d already figured beforehand, you would be okay. As long as it doesn’t contradict “present truth”. However, if you mentioned the “new light” BEFORE the Governing Body revealed it, then you would be accused of “running ahead”. And if a person got disfellowshipped, then the Governing Body changed the teaching then, you would not get an apology, and likely a person would still have to work going through the hoops of reinstatement.
Can they have it both ways?
Yes, about this and many things. They are a cult. They have absolute authority. They can have their cake and eat it too.
