Londo111

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Posts by Londo111

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  17

  Watchtower myth: God’s will discerned through committees, not individual leaders

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  be it the governing body, or the a judicial committee of the local elder body, when a two-thirds majority vote is reached, it is viewed as god’s will, as the action of holy spirit, of jesus nudging the stars in his right hand.

  [and if i’m not mistaken, the minority is encouraged to change their vote, so that is “unanimous”.

  anthony morris alluded to this when he unsuccessfully tried to explain why the governing body is not dogmatic.

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  Londo111

  I agree. It's no different than a ouija board.
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  28

  NEW PEW Research data on Jehovah's Witnesses just released

  by Balaamsass2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was expecting people who "identified" as jws to follow watchtower beliefs more closely than these pollsters report.. .

  http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s/.

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  Londo111

  Do JWs believe in hell? Yes, they believe hell is mankind's common grave. It is likely what the 7% were thinking.
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  17

  Watchtower myth: God’s will discerned through committees, not individual leaders

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  be it the governing body, or the a judicial committee of the local elder body, when a two-thirds majority vote is reached, it is viewed as god’s will, as the action of holy spirit, of jesus nudging the stars in his right hand.

  [and if i’m not mistaken, the minority is encouraged to change their vote, so that is “unanimous”.

  anthony morris alluded to this when he unsuccessfully tried to explain why the governing body is not dogmatic.

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  Londo111

  I guess this is related to what Ray Franz said in Crisis of Conscience:

  Based on my own experience among them I believe that they are, in effect, the captives of a concept. The concept or mental image they have of “the organization” seems almost to take on a personality of its own, so that the concept itself controls them, moves them or restrains them, by molding their thinking, their attitudes, their judgments . . .

  The insertion of the existing concept of “the organization,” however, radically alters their thinking and viewpoint, becomes, in fact, the dominant, controlling force . . .

  I believe that when the men on the Governing Body think about and refer to “the organization” they likewise think of the concept rather than the reality. They think of “the organization” as something far bigger and grander than themselves, thinking of it in its numerical aspect, in the extent of its scope of control, as something international, worldwide. They do not realize—apparently—that this aspect relates more to the organization’s domain than to what it itself actually is. When, however, they urge “loyalty to the organization” they must know, they certainly should know, that they are not talking about that domain—about the thousands of congregations and their members that the organization directs. They are talking about loyalty to the source of the direction, the source of the teachings, the source of the authority.

  Whether the Governing Body members acknowledge it or whether they prefer not to think about it, the fact remains that in these crucial respects they, and they alone, are “the organization.” Whatever other authority exists—that of the Branch Committees, that of the District or Circuit Overseers, that of Congregational Elder Bodies—that authority is totally dependent on that small body of men, subject to adjustment, change or removal at their decision, unilaterally, with no questions asked . . .

  I believe that for most of these Governing Body members, like the rest of Jehovah’s Witnesses, “the organization” takes on a symbolic nature, something rather undefined, abstract, a concept rather than a concrete entity. Rather than the “mother church” it is the “mother organization.”

  Perhaps because of such an illusory view of “the organization” a man can be a member of such a Body that has virtually unrestricted power and authority, and yet not feel a keen sense of personal responsibility for what the Body does, for whatever hurt or whatever misleading information and consequent misdirection results. “It was the organization that did it, not us,” seems to be the thinking. And, believing that “the organization” is God’s chosen instrument, the responsibility is passed on to God. It was His will—even if later the particular decision or the particular authoritative teaching is found wrong and changed. People may have been disfellowshiped or otherwise hurt by the wrong decisions. But the individual member of the Governing Body feels absolved of personal responsibility.

  
  
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  17

  Watchtower myth: God’s will discerned through committees, not individual leaders

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  be it the governing body, or the a judicial committee of the local elder body, when a two-thirds majority vote is reached, it is viewed as god’s will, as the action of holy spirit, of jesus nudging the stars in his right hand.

  [and if i’m not mistaken, the minority is encouraged to change their vote, so that is “unanimous”.

  anthony morris alluded to this when he unsuccessfully tried to explain why the governing body is not dogmatic.

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  Londo111

  Be it the Governing Body, or a judicial committee of the local elder body, when a two-thirds majority vote is reached, it is viewed as God’s will, as the action of holy spirit, of Jesus nudging the stars in his right hand. [And if I’m not mistaken, the minority is encouraged to change their vote, so that is “unanimous”.]

  Anthony Morris alluded to this when he unsuccessfully tried to explain why the Governing Body is not dogmatic. “The decisions that are made by the Faithful Slave today, are made collectively. So no one man's making these decisions. These decisions, if you want to call them a decree, are made collectively . . . This is a theocracy, ruled by God. Not a collection of manmade decisions. This is governed from heaven.”

  A relative who was an elder felt sort of the same way on the elder body, explaining it as a miraculous shift that would occur in reaching a consensus. God’s will mystically becomes known through a small body of men.

  This mythos greases the wheels of the Watchtower chariot.

  I wonder about the psychological dynamics of committee leadership from whence this feeling of awe is derived.
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  17

  The Law of Unintended Consequences

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the governing body/watchtower unduly influences millions into extreme beliefs and behaviors.

  and i suspect folks like anthony morris thinks his flock is not obedient or strict enough and there are many rules and teachings the governing body would love to enact but do not have the votes, or even they have the sense enough to know it would go too far.

  however, i can’t help how by the time their edicts filter down to the rank and file jw, it causes unintended consequences.

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  Londo111

  Talesin:
  I agree. Disfellowshipping is a great anti-witness. Many who thought JWs were just some nice people and didn't see beyond the carefully crafted image now know the real truth.
• 
  17

  The Law of Unintended Consequences

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the governing body/watchtower unduly influences millions into extreme beliefs and behaviors.

  and i suspect folks like anthony morris thinks his flock is not obedient or strict enough and there are many rules and teachings the governing body would love to enact but do not have the votes, or even they have the sense enough to know it would go too far.

  however, i can’t help how by the time their edicts filter down to the rank and file jw, it causes unintended consequences.

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  Londo111

  Very true. Less education=less donations.
• 
  17

  The Law of Unintended Consequences

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the governing body/watchtower unduly influences millions into extreme beliefs and behaviors.

  and i suspect folks like anthony morris thinks his flock is not obedient or strict enough and there are many rules and teachings the governing body would love to enact but do not have the votes, or even they have the sense enough to know it would go too far.

  however, i can’t help how by the time their edicts filter down to the rank and file jw, it causes unintended consequences.

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• 

  Londo111

  The Governing Body/Watchtower unduly influences millions into extreme beliefs and behaviors. And I suspect folks like Anthony Morris thinks his flock is not obedient or strict enough and there are many rules and teachings the Governing Body would love to enact but do not have the votes, or even they have the sense enough to know it would go too far.

  However, I can’t help thinking how by the time their edicts filter down to the rank and file JW, it causes unintended consequences. The flock picks up the belief system and runs with it in directions or to a degree Watchtower never intended. It’s almost as if there is the JW official religion, found in the pages of Watchtower publications, and then there is an unofficial JW folk religion. The ‘peasants’ can easily get whipped into a hysteria.

  For instance, while finally dropping the charade and declaring that only the Governing Body is the Faithful Slave, they increased their prestige. Now they have more crazed fans than ever. Likely, they did not intend to become rock stars.

  What other things do you think are a result of unintended consequences?
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  26

  Start your own Prince rumour!

  by purrpurr in

  1. social
  2. humour

  i see the jw rumour mill is going into mad overdrive about prince.

  the stories seem to be more and more unlikely.

  so i thought as a bit of fun how about us here try to make up our own rumours?

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  Londo111

  Prince gave Rolex watched and pinkie rings to the Governing Body as gifts.

  I swear it on Russell's pyramid! 
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  19

  Everyone is Equal in God's Loving Organization

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  they said we are all the same in god’s eyes.

  that everyone is equal.

  to prove this they call everyone “brother and sister.” sadly, this really isn’t the case.

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  Londo111

  Very true.

  And it's made me aware of the changes that have occurred in the organization:

  Auxiliary pioneer requirements are now 50 hour (expect for special months where it is 30).

  Regular pioneer requirements are 70 hours.

  Special pioneers for the most part of have given the boot.

  District overseers have been eliminated.

  Not sure if Zone overseers are still around???

  The Gilead school no longer produces missionaries.
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  10

  Hulu’s ‘The Path’ portrays family life inside a cult

  by freemindfade in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  this looks great for people who are both cult survivors and aaron paul fans!

  https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/tv/slow-but-emotionally-creepy-hulus-the-path-portrays-family-life-inside-a-cult/2016/03/29/43840c46-f2c5-11e5-a61f-e9c95c06edca_story.html.

  slow but emotionally creepy, hulu’s ‘the path’ portrays family life inside a cult.

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  Londo111

  I've been enjoying the show.

  What is interesting is how it shows cult members being normal in their authentic selves. They are not such some sort of "zombie" that the public thinks of. Rather than all good or all bad, they are complicated individuals.

  I find Hawk's story arc most relatable as he tries to balance cult life with school life, trying to be faithful to the cult, distancing himself from non-cult schoolmates, yet falling in love.

  Last week's episode reminded me so much of how the JW cult admonition: "Worldly people may seem nice, but they don't love Jehovah."