Thank you, Tazemanian-devil! :)
Londo111
JoinedPosts by Londo111
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11
All or Nothing: The Slippery Slope of Watchtower Morality
by Londo111 inthere is a common saying that “the crime should fit the punishment”.
a minor violation should receive a minor correction; a major violation receives a major punishment.
take the example of a kid who accidently spills soda on the carpet.
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“Even if this wasn’t the Truth, I need the structure.”
by Londo111 ini remember many years back a fellow ministerial servant saying this to me.
he felt that even if jehovah’s witnesses were not the only true religion, the regimented routine of meetings and field service and the strict rules and enforcement provided a beneficial structure for his life.
at the time i thought if this wasn’t “the truth”, i’d have no need for all that “structure”.
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Londo111
LOL! That is a funny joke! :) -
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I'm getting baptized
by BlackWolf ini know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.
my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.
i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.
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Londo111
You definitely have to make your own decision on this.
However, note the vast consensus that is coming from the people here that are much older than you and have more life experience. If I was 15 again and knew what I knew now, I certainly would start backpedalling before getting dunked.
Until you get dunked, it’s not too late to back out. Once you do this, they can use the shun gun on you to keep you in line. This is why the Governing Body are pushing for this in order to make and retain members. If you do this, you will be walking into the lion’s mouth.
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11
All or Nothing: The Slippery Slope of Watchtower Morality
by Londo111 inthere is a common saying that “the crime should fit the punishment”.
a minor violation should receive a minor correction; a major violation receives a major punishment.
take the example of a kid who accidently spills soda on the carpet.
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Londo111
There is a common saying that “the crime should fit the punishment”. A minor violation should receive a minor correction; a major violation receives a major punishment.
Take the example of a kid who accidently spills soda on the carpet. I’d have a low opinion of a parent that would go ballistic over such a mistake. Sometimes one can diffuse a situation by saying, “Spilling a soda on the carpet…that’s worse than Hitler!” Obviously when said aloud, it sounds quite silly.
In the Watchtower’s fundamentalist mindset, things are not always the weighed that way. In their teaching, Hitler might come back in the resurrection, but if you did or did not [fill in the blank], you might get everlastingly destroyed at Armageddon. And that fill in the blank might be, not being regular enough in field service, not attending all the meetings, or perhaps a married couple did something in bed that Watchtower said is out of bounds. It’s either all or nothing. It’s either “faithful in what is least” or everlasting death.
Could you do more? Sometimes the thought is: Pioneer or die! Can you do any less? So perhaps you could have pioneered if you really tried hard enough, but you didn’t. Perhaps you were pioneering, but could’ve tried for a special assignment where “the need is greater”. Perhaps you watched fantasy movies. Sometimes a JW might not know what act of non-compliance one has done that could make one birdfood at the Big A. To be safe, they might live a very strict life, or live in fear and doubt as far as their near future--sometimes both.
You didn’t pioneer--that’s worse than Hitler! You watched Harry Potter--that’s worse than Hitler! Doesn’t that sound silly?
This is reflected in Watchtower’s system of crime and punishment. Being disfellowshipped, in essence, is saying that a person is in line for everlasting death. Obviously, this is reinforced by shunning and the person becomes dead to their friends and family. It is a religious stoning.
Volitions are not weighted. Did you murder someone? You can be disfellowshipped. Did you celebrate Christmas? You can be disfellowshipped. Did you go a little too far with someone you are dating? You can be disfellowshipped. Did a church hire you to do some maintenance? You can be disfellowshipped.
Therefore, in that system of crime and punishment, something relatively minor in importance becomes equal to murder. That is even assuming the Governing Body’s interpretation of what is right and wrong is correct and overlooking how often it vacillated on issues like organ transplants, blood fractions, the YMCA, alternative service, and so forth.
It is truly “a tenth of the mint and the dill and the cummin”, “straining out a gnat” but neglecting “weightier” matters. The Watchtower morality does not have its priorities straight.
To a person who has bought into this belief, it doesn’t take much for someone to feel bad, evil, doomed, even criminal. If a minor matter is equivalent to something major, then how easy it is to think, “In for a penny, in for a pound. I might as well.” If a person becomes convinced they are evil, then sometimes, that might be how they act.
It’s a slippery slope of morality.
Take the Watchtower’s gradient of porn. A man viewing lesbian porn could be a disfellowshipping matter, but so is looking at child porn. Clearly the two are not equivalent! But under Watchtower both actions can receive the same punishment.
Take another matter. Two people are dating and they go “too far”, perhaps a single man getting to “second base” with his girlfriend. Doing this one time might merit a slap on the wrist, as this would be viewed as “minor uncleanness”. But then Watchtower viewed Jonathan Kendrick’s doing the same toward his underage stepdaughter as “minor uncleanness” and got a similar slap on the wrist. But even though Watchtower weighted these situations the same, clearly the two matters were not equivalent!
Of course, there are people who are of a predatory or sociopathic nature, to whom no system of punishment would deter, and they would not be swayed any by fear, guilt, or obligation. And not everyone under Watchtower morality goes down that slippery slope.
I believe people naturally have an innate sense of right and wrong, as well as common sense. In general, many people do not even need a law or rule enforced by an external agency to do the right thing and to avoid the bad. But Watchtower morality can warp this, skewing perspective and priorities.
During the Australian Royal Commission, it was brought up that certain repressive environments produce “perfect storms” that lead to things such as higher rates of child abuse. Of course, the Watchtower organization is not the only group where such perfect storms exist, but nonetheless it is recognized by experts that the conditions in Watchtower are rife for such things to occur.
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Someone Can't Add at Bethel - Goof on Tonight's Part
by thedepressedsoul in“are you using jw library?”: (15 min.
) begin with afive-minute discussion of the article.
then play andbriefly discuss the video start using “jw library.”afterward, do the same with the videos downloadand manage publications and customize the readingexperience.
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Londo111
This meeting will by no means pass away until all these parts occur. Evidently, the meeting parts are meant to overlap.
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Someone Can't Add at Bethel - Goof on Tonight's Part
by thedepressedsoul in“are you using jw library?”: (15 min.
) begin with afive-minute discussion of the article.
then play andbriefly discuss the video start using “jw library.”afterward, do the same with the videos downloadand manage publications and customize the readingexperience.
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Londo111
More numbers that never added up:
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10
Someone Can't Add at Bethel - Goof on Tonight's Part
by thedepressedsoul in“are you using jw library?”: (15 min.
) begin with afive-minute discussion of the article.
then play andbriefly discuss the video start using “jw library.”afterward, do the same with the videos downloadand manage publications and customize the readingexperience.
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Londo111
They measured the part in pyramid inches... -
35
“Even if this wasn’t the Truth, I need the structure.”
by Londo111 ini remember many years back a fellow ministerial servant saying this to me.
he felt that even if jehovah’s witnesses were not the only true religion, the regimented routine of meetings and field service and the strict rules and enforcement provided a beneficial structure for his life.
at the time i thought if this wasn’t “the truth”, i’d have no need for all that “structure”.
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Londo111
I'd a good friend say to me, "If I wasn't in the 'truth', I'd take LSD and other drugs." I'm not sure my exact reply, but it was likely to the effect of, "Why would you want to risk damaging your mind and health?"
Other JWs have similar sentiments, "If I wasn't a JW, I would do X, Y, and Z."
It is definitely part an implanted phobia. As Steven Hassan says on his website:
Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc. -
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“Even if this wasn’t the Truth, I need the structure.”
by Londo111 ini remember many years back a fellow ministerial servant saying this to me.
he felt that even if jehovah’s witnesses were not the only true religion, the regimented routine of meetings and field service and the strict rules and enforcement provided a beneficial structure for his life.
at the time i thought if this wasn’t “the truth”, i’d have no need for all that “structure”.
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Londo111
I feel for you Doubtfully Yours. When my girlfriend read your comments, she said, "I want to hug this woman."
BTW...I hope none of my OP sounded like bragging. Life has its ups and downs. I've lots of room for improvement. Like a game of mini-golf, I'm only measuring myself relative to where I was previously, rather than against anyone else's life.
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35
“Even if this wasn’t the Truth, I need the structure.”
by Londo111 ini remember many years back a fellow ministerial servant saying this to me.
he felt that even if jehovah’s witnesses were not the only true religion, the regimented routine of meetings and field service and the strict rules and enforcement provided a beneficial structure for his life.
at the time i thought if this wasn’t “the truth”, i’d have no need for all that “structure”.
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Londo111
I remember many years back a fellow ministerial servant saying this to me. He felt that even if Jehovah’s Witnesses were not the only true religion, the regimented routine of meetings and field service and the strict rules and enforcement provided a beneficial structure for his life.
At the time I thought if this wasn’t “the truth”, I’d have no need for all unnecessary rules and structure.
And now that I am mentally and physically out (almost four years faded), I’ve found I still don’t need it. I don’t get drunk. I don’t smoke. I don’t use drugs of any sort. I’ve no need or addiction for porn. I’ve a girlfriend that I am faithful to and plan to marry someday. I’ve gotten my eating under control. In October 2014, I was about 310 pounds. Today I am 190 pounds.
I’ve been employed in the same place for six years and a home and reasonable health. And yes, these things might change overnight as there are NO guarantees no matter how structured a person is, or what their religion or philosophy is.
Rather than my life spinning out of control, I am happier, more at peace. Within my own life structure, I am more self-controlled. I’m more relaxed and open-minded. I’m not perfect, of course, but I'm more moral and trustworthy than at any point in my life.
Some of this might be due to maturity, but I find the more I leave Jehovah’s Witnesses behind, the better my life. At the very least, I do not need the Watchtower structure to keep my life from falling apart.
Anyone hanging onto something they know or suspect is not the truth, merely for the “structure”, I recommend rethinking this fear.