truth_b_known

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Posts by truth_b_known

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  52

  Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

  by truth_b_known in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

  jehovah created humans.

  jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

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  truth_b_known

  I found this which helped me out -

  Free Will, defined as the ability to have done otherwise, is not logically possible. All events must either be caused or uncaused, these are the only logical possibilities. In a universe where all events have prior causes, Free Will cannot exist as every outcome is completely determined by the given set of conditions; there is only one possible outcome. In a universe where some events do not have causes, Free Will still cannot exist as uncaused events cannot be willed into existence by a person, they would happen at random for no reason. These exhaust all possibilities, and therefore Free Will does not exist.
  This, however, does not undermine our own causal agency, we causally determine our actions, and as such still have the ability to determine our futures to our liking. I would like to add that since most of the world assumes Free Will to exist, the truth that it does not exist would have significant implications in the real world. Holding others morally or ethically accountable for their actions, good or bad, is no longer reasonable given that they could not have done otherwise. A person's choice isn't ultimately up to them, despite how much they agree with it. This would change the way we view others, hold grudges, or even hate others at all. We would still need to lock dangerous criminals away for the safety of others, but to punish them or hate them for being morally depraved would be wrong, it IS wrong.

  I think my confusion comes in with thinking free will and having a choice are one and the same as determinism and lack of having choice are once in the same. This is not so and is important. Especially when it comes to human belief systems in which people's choices are used as a license to intentionally cause harm to others or hate them.
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  52

  Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

  by truth_b_known in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

  jehovah created humans.

  jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

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  truth_b_known

  CyberJesus is hitting on an important point.

  Free Will is an illusion. We certainly "feel" like are making choices. What is actually going on is the brain is running a calculation program.

  That calculation program consists of multiple points of input -

  • Belief structures
  • Current information
  • Past experiences
  • Desires
  • Temperament

  Input is also affect by the law of cause and effect as well as the other natural laws of the universe.

  They illusion of free will comes from our consciousness being aware that the calculation is being made combine with our inability to predict the end result of what will happen.

  Our brains are constantly running "software" that optimize our wellbeing. Cause harm to others and others' software calculations will result in treating you accordingly. Cause harm you are the problem. Others' actions, such as confining you to a place where you cannot harm them, are the result. This process is where the idea of morality comes from.
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  14

  Nonbelieving mates

  by road to nowhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a couple of my wife's friends are married to non witnesses.

  they say jehovah must have special plans for them.

  and that it is a special exception not destruction, alas, they are not attractive so my special idea about polygamy won't cut it.

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  truth_b_known

  These women as fooling themselves and are committing apostasy in the eyes of the Watchtower.

  Everyone on this website who was a JW at any point in their life knows what the Watchtower teaches - When Armageddon comes, all non-JWs are destroyed forever. No exceptions!

  These women are trying to eat their cake and have it too. They are openly practicing members of a religion that teaches that their god, Jehovah, will murder their husbands one day for worshipping him. Their belief goes against the teachings of the Watchtower.

  Encourage them to vocalize their beliefs in the presence of 2 or more elders. See how they react. I know it would be a cruel thing to do, but vocalize that you are going to the elders with their apostate thinking. No. Don't do it. Just run the scenario through your head and see how the simulation ends. I know - change or be DFed!
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  52

  Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

  by truth_b_known in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

  jehovah created humans.

  jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  truth_b_known

  I found some interesting viewpoints on this topic -

  Free Will, defined as the ability to have done otherwise, is not logically possible. All events must either be caused or uncaused, these are the only logical possibilities. In a universe where all events have prior causes, Free Will cannot exist as every outcome is completely determined by the given set of conditions; there is only one possible outcome. In a universe where some events do not have causes, Free Will still cannot exist as uncaused events cannot be willed into existence by a person, they would happen at random for no reason. These exhaust all possibilities, and therefore Free Will does not exist.
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  52

  Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

  by truth_b_known in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

  jehovah created humans.

  jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  truth_b_known

  PunkofNicke: I agree with you. The law of cause and effect certainly has the most to do with things.
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  52

  Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

  by truth_b_known in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

  jehovah created humans.

  jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  truth_b_known

  I am beginning to think that part of the answer comes from understanding what is exactly meant. There needs to be an agreement on what the terminology means. Also, that likes most things, it is not a binary situation.

  There is "Strong Free Will" which goes something like -

  (a) it is “up to us” what we choose from an array of alternative possibilities, and (b) the origin or source of our choices and actions is in us and not in anyone or anything else over which we have no control.

  There is "Hard Determinism" which goes something like -

  the history, present state, and future of physical bodies and force fields in the universe, including the physical aspects of mental states. The hypothesis is that every physical state of affairs at any point in time is the causal product of two things: (1) an immediately prior physical state of affairs and (2) the laws of nature. “[D]eterminism” is the thesis that “a complete physical description of the world at a given time, together with a complete description of the laws of nature, entails every truth as to the state of the physical world at later times” - or earlier times, for that matter. If determinism is valid, it means that with sufficient information about the world and sufficient knowledge of the laws of nature, one can both predict the future and derive the past because every physical state of affairs that once existed, now exists or will exist in the future is inexorably dictated by what precedes it.

  There are also "soft" versions of each theory.

  So, perhaps it is like one person put it (in my own words) -

  "In each present moment we are presented with a limited number of deterministic outcomes to chose from."

  That is to say, we have some choice, but much has already been determined by prior action.
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  52

  Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

  by truth_b_known in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

  jehovah created humans.

  jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  truth_b_known

  I came to this website because -

  1. Sometime in the late 1970's my parents conceived me
  2. My parents are U.S. citizens and I was birth in the U.S., a country composed of mostly Christians
  3. My parents were/are devout Jehovah's Witnesses
  4. My mother's parents were also devout JWs
  5. The Watchtower demands JW parents indoctrinate their children in their belief system
  6. Like all children, I believed everything my parents taught me is true
  7. I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses
  8. In my late 20's I applied for a job
  9. That employer hired me
  10. I had to work nights, weekends, and holidays causing me to miss meetings
  11. My enthusiasm for the JW religion waned
  12. I inherited my father's aptitude for critical thinking
  13. My father taught me astronomy
  14. I took astronomy in college
  15. My astronomy instructor made my learn Kepler's Law
  16. Graham Hancock wrote a book about Mars
  17. I read that book
  18. Kepler's Law and the book about Mars changed my belief on Noah's Flood
  19. I attended the Memorial at my father's request in 2010 because he said it would be of significance
  20. I attended that Memorial and it was exactly like every Memorial I attended for 30+ years

  That's a shortlist of contributing factors of why I first came to this website. In that list there are 8 people outside of me that have a direct link of why I made it here. There are many, many more.

  • The actions of other people.
  • My inherited beliefs.
    
  • My inherited DNA.

  This is a short list of external factors I had no control over that brought me to this website.

  One person said we do things for 1 of 2 reasons -

  1. We want to
  2. We were coerced to

  The question is, how do we choose what we want? We don't. Where do our thoughts come from? Who is the thinker thinking the thoughts?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpU_e3jh_FY
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  52

  Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

  by truth_b_known in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

  jehovah created humans.

  jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  truth_b_known

  Being born-in and raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses I remember a common theme or phrases used by the Watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -

  • Jehovah created humans
  • Jehovah created humans as free moral agents
  • Jehovah created humans with "free will"
  • Free will is how sin came into the world
  • As free moral agents, God judges us by our choices and that will determine how God decides our eternal future

  I have recently begun to study the topic of free will vs determinism. The evidence definitely leans more towards determinism and that free will is illusionary.

  I was seeking other users input on the topic. Has anyone else studied this? What have your findings produced?

  "A man can do what he wants, but not want what he wants." - Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher
  
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  3

  Magnum Actor died.

  by Lost in the fog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://news.sky.com/story/magnum-pi-actor-roger-e-mosley-dies-after-sustaining-injuries-in-car-crash-12668467.

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  truth_b_known

  Magnum P.I. is on a list of shows produced by Chad Larson that made the 80's a great time to own a tv. I love the show and T.C. is a great character.
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  7

  Woke Up Feeling Poetic, so an ExJW Poem

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  come here you heavy hearted who departed from the truth your youth and family trapped you in.. no need to fear that armageddons near and you will be forgotten as a rotten failure to your kin.. the freedom that you took is nothing that a crusty book can ever realistically replace.. so stand up tall, tell all who need to hear that it is them who fear to look you in the face..

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  truth_b_known

  Well done, Simon. A powerful poem indeed. I appreciate your prose.

  I do believe it is they would both cower in shame and look away in fear. Shunning is not love. The thought that we are right burns like a hot ember in the back of their brain. "What if he's right?" is the background noise of their lives.