Posts by ScenicViewer

14

Wiggle room and the deconstruction of the 1975 JW disaster

by Terry in

the watchtower, may 1, 1975, said of a watchtower bible school of gilead graduation held on march 2, 1975: (italics added).

another speaker, f. w. franz, the society's vice- president, forcefully impressed on the audience the urgency of the christian preaching work.

the watchtower (1943 july 1 p. 202) says: "jehovah god is therefore the only supreme court of interpretation of his inspired word.

ScenicViewer

[The 1986 book, Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace” starting on p. 182] was the last time the Watchtower Society even alluded to the creation day being 7000 years long.

There is one (slightly) later reference to the 7000 year Creative Day that I am aware of, from a 1987 Watchtower magazine.

(W 1-1-87, p30)

"Second, a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days (Genesis, chapter 1) is 7,000 years long. It is understood that Christ’s reign of a thousand years will bring to a close God’s 7,000-year ‘rest day,’ the last ‘day’ of the creative week."

This teaching has never been denied outright, but; is not considered to be worth promoting anymore.

Unfortunately, the Society isn't always clear when a teaching has been changed or dropped. The 7000 year Day has been silently abandoned. The latest teaching doesn't put a time on the Creative Days.

(Was Life Created, Brochure 2010, p24)

"How long, then, were the creative days? The Bible does not say; however, the wording of Genesis chapters 1 and 2 indicates that considerable lengths of time were involved.

The Creative Days are no longer viewed as being 7000 years long, but as an unspecified 'considerable length of time.'

13

Crisis of Conscience within the Traralgon Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses - Part 1

by sizemik in

this press release on steven unthank's website yesterday is worth a read .

it's a fuller version .

more details.. http://jwnewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/traralgon-congregation-crisis-of-conscience-part-1/.

ScenicViewer

Now I get it! I had wondered why the Meeting sign had to be removed. What was the point of it?

As Retrovirus has pointed out (from Unthank's article) the WTS has denied operating a church based school for children. However, the Theocratic Ministry School is just that, since both children and adults are enrolled.

The sign advertised the time the school was held, and also had an advertisement to the public stating "all welcome," and "all" would include children. Additionally the Society has stated in the Watchtower,

" If you are not acquainted with this ministerial training course, you are invited to attend the local Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses to enjoy its informative program without cost. You do not have to be one of Jehovah’s witnesses to do so ." (W 9-1-73 p534, par16)

These remarks are clearly directed at bringing non-Witnesses, including children, into the KH.

It also explains why the 10 year old boy had to be removed from his assignment that night; it wouldn't do to have a child appear in the school after the Society has denied having a school for children.

10

governing body salary

by leftchica in

ScenicViewer

I've heard many Witnesses say they dropped money into the coat pockets of COs and DOs. Governing Body members must receive the same generosity from many Witnesses all over the world. Who knows how much they each bring in yearly. Probably more than most Witnesses earn. And as mentioned by Zagor, everything they need is already provided and then some, so whatever cash donations they receive is purely excess.

18

Marginal Notes in the 'Shepherd the Flock of God'

by Londo111 in

elders of the jeroboam/conscious class, .

it is my understanding, correct me if i am wrong, that during the km school, the instructors have elders write notes in the margins of the shepherd book, notes that legal does not want in print, and perhaps by extension, extra tidbits they don't want leaked to the public and/or average witness.. .

can you share some of these from the latest km school?.

ScenicViewer

@ Cantleave (I think), who said

I have a PDF of the old book with all the marginal notes from the elders school (s).

Is this posted on the internet where we can download it?

15

I have a question regarding" free" magazines

by smiddy in

jw
friends

since they no longer charge for mags at the doors do the publishers carry this cost ?i used to be a literature servant and you never gave away mags unless they were old and out of date to be left at doctors waiting rooms etc.

not at peoples homes ,otherwise householders would expect to get them for free.

in other words do the publishers pay for the mags and give them away for free?

ScenicViewer

Ziddina said,

So I suspect that they don't receive a significant amount from "worldly" people; it must be coming primarily from the already impoverished rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses...

I think in most cases you are right. I would occassionally get a small donation, but usually not. Regardless of donations, I believe the Society bills the congregations for the mags and other literature. (Someone correct me if I am wrong. Any literature servants here?)

Anyone can pick up their mags for free, but they still get paid for through congregation donations.

Then, any donation money received from the field also gets donated to the Society.

The Society gets paid coming and going.

15

I have a question regarding" free" magazines

by smiddy in

jw
friends

since they no longer charge for mags at the doors do the publishers carry this cost ?i used to be a literature servant and you never gave away mags unless they were old and out of date to be left at doctors waiting rooms etc.

not at peoples homes ,otherwise householders would expect to get them for free.

in other words do the publishers pay for the mags and give them away for free?

ScenicViewer

Twisty said,

"...making sure not to deprive the householfers of an opportunity to contribute at the doors."

Oh, that is funny! It is perfect Watchtower thinking!

120

Do YOU Believe That JWs Have A Huge Problem With Pedophiles?

by minimus in

i don't think there are more pedophiles in the religion than there are in others.. i understand that one is too many.

but i think some believe that it's an epidemic within the organization.

i believe their 2 witness rule can help pedophiles secretly abuse kids.. but i don't think that this particular crime dominates those in the religion.. .

ScenicViewer

blond-moment said,

The issue is how pedophiles are dealt with. The 2 witness rule protects the pedophile...

That is a very important point. The way the Watchtower handles such cases is a complete mis-application of the 2 witness rule. There will virtually never be 2 witnesses to such an event. In the end, what the WTS is really protecting besides, the pedophile, is itself, it's own image.

120

Do YOU Believe That JWs Have A Huge Problem With Pedophiles?

by minimus in

i don't think there are more pedophiles in the religion than there are in others.. i understand that one is too many.

but i think some believe that it's an epidemic within the organization.

i believe their 2 witness rule can help pedophiles secretly abuse kids.. but i don't think that this particular crime dominates those in the religion.. .

ScenicViewer

I don't think there are more pedophiles in the religion than there are in others.

No doubt that's true, but that really isn't the point of paedophilia among JWs. The WTS has printed much material condemning other religious groups, especially Catholics, for pedophiles that exist in them. At the same time the Organization was covering up it's own problem with child molestors.

The WTS insists that Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy a spiritual paradise that no other religion on earth has, that it's people are being protected by Jehovah.

The reality is, they are no different. There is no spiritual paradise. There is no special protection.

The Watchtower's cover up of it's own pedophiles was for no other reason than to promote it's own 'public image.' The organization doesn't care about people, not even children. It only cares about it's own growth, prosperity, and success as a religion. People are simply used to achieve that goal.

People find this objectionable because of the extreme hypocrisy involved, not because of the total number of pedophiles.

41

Victoria, Australia: Brief Update - Steven Unthank is still Acting Prosecutor, etc.

by AndersonsInfo in

court hearing results for december 6, 2011:.

steven unthank is still the acting prosecutor (and that's why he could not comment on the case on the"dialogue" program), and all 5 cases are still before the courts.

the crown informed the court that the office of public prosecutions are "acting as a facilitator at the moment"; and that the police investigation is "quite well progressed"; and that the police are awaiting response from the department of justice.. .

ScenicViewer

@ Hamsterbait

I remember that thread. Actually, the director of the Australian branch was moved to Poland just before the elders were told to comply with the law, and a new man was brought into Australia. Maybe the one moved to Poland had something to hide, or maybe the Society figured the new man in Australia would be more capable of handling the the situation. I don't think anyone knows for sure.

There's no new info as far as I know.

11

Christmas Origins VS. Watchtower's 1914

by Butterflyleia85 in

ok sooo this of course has nothing to do with each other but the reasoning is beneficial for critical thinkers.

christmas is one of the most popular holidays that has spread throughout the world.

what one can think is that this holiday must have its significance, yes greatly influenced but in order for something to be so influenced it has to have ground of truth and honesty behind it.

ScenicViewer

Christmas I found...farther roots then the 3rd and 4th Century. Its origin dates back to 202 C. E!

The Watchtower will say that the Great Apostasy began right after the apostles died, at the very end of the 1st Century or early in the 2nd Century. The belief is, the apostles acted as a restraint against apostasy, and after they were gone apostasy flourished.

So, if Christmas dates back to 202 C.E. they will still say it is the result of apostate Christianity, which had been building for 100 years by that time.

The pyramid connection to 1914 is very interesting.