ScenicViewer

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Posts by ScenicViewer

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  152

  To garyneal and Others, Evidence that the anointed remnants represented by the GB were selected in 1919.

  by mankkeli in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  1st evidence: the release of loyal jews from exile, made possible by the fall of babylon, foreshadowed the release in 1919 of anointed christians from spiritual exile.

  2nd evidence: that year marked the beginning of the period when the anointed remnants were released from a form of spiritual captivity to the ideas and practices of false religion.

  although having rejected such false teachings as the trinity and the immortal soul, they were still tainted by babylonish practices.

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  ScenicViewer

  where is mankkeli?

  I think Mankkeli is gone now, maybe he was banned. He kept coming back under various names, always with the same type of posts and arguements. I haven't seen him under any of his aliases in a while now.
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  535

  AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

  http://www.jwactivists.org.

  facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

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  ScenicViewer

  I'm very glad to hear of this new association. I too lean toward feeling that the name is a bit negative, but a name is small potatoes compared to the mission, which is outstanding. I look forward to joining in and contributing in any way I can to the success of this movement.

  Congratulations!
• 
  34

  A handy CHRONOLOGY of the life and times of Charles and Maria Russell

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1852 charles taze russell was born in(february 16) in pittsburgh, pennsylvania.

  he was raised in a strict presbyterian home.. 1868 (age 16) in an encounter with a non-believer he became disillusioned over the subject of whether god as a heavenly father would burn his children in hell.

  side note: 1869 (joseph franklin rutherford was born and raised a baptist).

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  ScenicViewer

  BluesBrother said, They never miss a trick in massaging their past mistakes. No they dont. Here is another one, a gem of a lie, from your quote on p622 of the Proclaimer's Book,

  He [Russell] discerned that Christ would return as a glorious spirit person, invisible to human eyes.

  Russell discerned no such thing. The discovery of the parousia, Christ's invisible presence, was made by a man identified as Bro. Keith, and this was acknowleged in an early Watch Tower, quoted below.

  The Problem: Christ didn't return in 1874

  (W Feb, 1881 p188 par3 of Reprints)
  "Looking back to 1871, we see that many of our company were what are known as Second Adventists, and the light they held briefly stated, was that there would be a second advent of Jesus -- that he would come to bless and immortalize the saints, to judge the world and to burn up the world and all the wicked. This, they claimed would occur in 1873, because the 6,000 years from the creation of Adam were complete then.
  
  "But prophecies were found which pointed positively to 1874 as the time when Jesus was due to be present, and the resurrection of Daniel was also due as proved by the ending of the jubilee cycles and the 1335 days of Dan. xii.
  
  "Carefully they [Second Adventists] examined the chronology but it seemed faultless and positively declared that the 6,000 years ended in 1873... Was an error found? No…the “1335 days” of Daniel could not possibly be prolonged beyond the fall of ‘74 or the spring 1875 and these periods were both past."

  The Solution: Parousia is discovered by Bro Keith (a Second Adventist???)

  (Par 6 of same article continues)
  "Just at this time Bro. Keith, (one of our contributors) was used of the Lord to throw another beam of light on the subject which brought order out of confusion and caused all of the former “light” to shine with tenfold brightness. Brother K. had been reading carefully Matthew xxiv chapter, using the “Emphatic Diaglott,”…37th and 39th verses… “For as the days of Noah thus will be the presence of the son of man….thus will be the presence of the Son of Man.”
  
  "His surprise was, at finding that the Greek word parousia which signifies presence, had in our common version been improperly rendered coming, but the new rendering showed that it was not the act of coming that resembled the days of Noah, but that as in Noah‘s days…it would be at the time of Jesus’ presence at the second advent."

  Bro Keith is described by the Watch Tower as "one of our contributors" in an article that showed a relationship between Russell's followers and the Second Adventists. I'm not sure if Keith himself was a Second Adventist or not, but he followed Nelson Barbour who was.

  "One of Barbour’s readers, B. W. Keith , came up with a solution. Having obtained a new translation of the New Testament, Benjamin Wilson’s The Emphatic Diaglott, Keith noticed a marginal alternative translation of Parousia, the Greek word normally translated ‘coming,’ namely ‘presence.’ " (From http://home.broadpark.no/~jhauglan/rutherford.htm#_Toc493437572 )

  If Keith was a Second Adventist then the concept of Christ's invisible presence is their discovery. If Keith was not a Second Adventist then the credit goes to Keith himself, but in no case did C.T. Russell 'discern it' as the Proclaimer's Book says.

  (Does anyone know whether Keith was a Second Adventist for sure?)
• 
  34

  A handy CHRONOLOGY of the life and times of Charles and Maria Russell

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1852 charles taze russell was born in(february 16) in pittsburgh, pennsylvania.

  he was raised in a strict presbyterian home.. 1868 (age 16) in an encounter with a non-believer he became disillusioned over the subject of whether god as a heavenly father would burn his children in hell.

  side note: 1869 (joseph franklin rutherford was born and raised a baptist).

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  ScenicViewer

  Can't find your qoute in the 51 awake. Not sure why

  I just now checked and fouind it on page 26, par 3 of the issue Terry cited.
• 
  30

  "Millions Now Living Will Never Die," Predicted the Watctower before 1914.

  by Scott77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  predicted the watctower falsely predicted before 1914 that,"millions now living will never die" before 1914. its now a year before we hit 100 years mark.

  was god's or god's holy spirit guiding them when they falsely predicted that prophesy?

  what is your reaction or perspective on this big lie?.

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  ScenicViewer

  Millions Now Living Will Never Die

  ftp://bible.cfmin.com/1920_Millions_Now_Living_Will_Never_Die-Small.pdf

  The one below will be a slower download, but probably better quality.

  ftp://bible.cfmin.com/1920_Millions_Now_Living_Will_Never_Die.pdf

  News advertisements for the 'Millions' campaign

  http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/documents/1919-1925_News_Clippings_Millions_Campaign.pdf

  The above links are taken from this page; many older publications listed in date order,

  ftp://u44653395-downloads:[email protected]/

  Edit: After testing the first two links above there seems to be a problem. You may get a sign-in box with password required.

  For a work-around click on the last link; you will see a long list of literature. Scroll down to 1920 and look for "Millions Now Living Will Never Die."

  By clicking through from there the sign-in box is avoided.
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  44

  Is this true? Do the elders really do it like this?

  by Julia Orwell in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i put this week's wt paragraph about disfellowshipping on my fb page and said how poor robert's family didn't even check to see whether he was dead or alive in 16 years and a friend of mine of the 'conscious class' commented about how unchristian she felt disfellowshipping to this degree is, and i agreed.. another friend, and uber-jw who has a host of illnesses and yet pioneers, who everytime she and her husband go to another congregation, if he's not appointed within three years they move to another and try for an appointment there - he used to be an elder and no one is willing to promote him again- replied to my thread.

  now keep in mind she has a dfd son and she doesn't even know whether he is dead or alive, because she follows the wt to the tee.

  she replied, among other things,with this:.

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  ScenicViewer

  Punkofnice, I like the way you broke down Uber Sister's remarks. Very good.

  Besty, thanks for the Watchtower reference to the public trials. I've been looking for something like that!
• 
  44

  Is this true? Do the elders really do it like this?

  by Julia Orwell in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i put this week's wt paragraph about disfellowshipping on my fb page and said how poor robert's family didn't even check to see whether he was dead or alive in 16 years and a friend of mine of the 'conscious class' commented about how unchristian she felt disfellowshipping to this degree is, and i agreed.. another friend, and uber-jw who has a host of illnesses and yet pioneers, who everytime she and her husband go to another congregation, if he's not appointed within three years they move to another and try for an appointment there - he used to be an elder and no one is willing to promote him again- replied to my thread.

  now keep in mind she has a dfd son and she doesn't even know whether he is dead or alive, because she follows the wt to the tee.

  she replied, among other things,with this:.

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  ScenicViewer

  The uber-JW said,

  The elders explain repeatedly what the co nsequences are. It is not a "one error, you're out" situation.

  I would ask her how she knows this. Has she been in a judical situation herself? If not, was she granted permission to sit in on a JC? That would not be permitted. More than likely she is saying what she thinks, which is not always the reality. Congregation members are never allowed to know the details of any judicial matter, so how could anyone know if any case was handled justly?

  I remember a Convention part in the early 1970s, Dodger Stadium, which revealed that three elders had conspired to get someone they didn't like DF'd, another elder if I remember correctly. Naturally the focus of the part was aimed at waiting on Jehovah to set things straight, and the man was reportedly allowed back in after the conspiracy was revealed, but that DF'ing was completely unjust, and I remember being surprised to learn that such things could happen in Jehovah's Organization. What about the unjust DF'ings that don't get set straight? What about the DF'ings that happen to good people because they can't agree with the teaching that allows a child to die for lack of blood, or some other Watchtower teaching that is clearly bad?

  Your poster is reacting to how she percieves the Organization, which is wrong a perception.

  If only Watchtower was what it pretended to be.
• 
  68

  POLL: How long did you remain a JW from point of baptism to leaving the KH

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was baptised --1963. left in 1978. fifteen years.

  pre-baptism, another 5 years.

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  ScenicViewer

  From baptism to last meeting attended: 33 yrs

  Pre-baptism meeting attendance: approx 3 yrs

  Total.........................................almost 36 yrs
• 
  86

  Resigned being an elder

  by subytrek in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am new here and this is my first post although i have lurked here for a couple years.

  i started having doubts about the org back then and my curiosity overcame my fear of so-called apostate websites so here i am.

  i just resigned being an elder 2 weeks ago.

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  ScenicViewer

  Congratulations Subytrek, and welcome to the board.

  I admire men in positions of responsibility who, based on a good conscience, decide they can no longer serve in that capacity. It's easy to stay put and go with the flow!

  Your wife's openness to examining 'the truth about the truth' along with you is a remarkable thing.

  All the best to both of you.
• 
  42

  JWgift.org - the UK's Watchtower-sponsored website that "should not be seen as the soliciting of funds in any way"...

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ...even though it has a massive button on the home page saying "make a donation.".

  https://www.jwgift.org/welcome.aspx.

  cedars.

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  ScenicViewer

  Watchtower says,

  "This facility has been provided solely for the convenience of those who asked for this service and desire to support our work by these means."

  Yes, I'm sure that Jehovan's Witnesses were lined up, asking for a convenient way to give their money to the WTS.

  Oops! Wannabefree you beat me to that remark!