Posts by mcsemike

57

Unbelievable comment in Jan 1 2007 WT

by penny2 in

page 28, paragraph 11 says in part:.

"it seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.

" (the 24 elders = "anointed christians in their heavenly positions".).

mcsemike

Isn't it bad enough that the living anointed screw up the beliefs? Now we have to wonder if the dead ones help them? How many damn links are in this chain? I thought God spoke to mankind thru Jesus. Period. You WT Pharisees need to read your Bibles again. No, wait. Not YOUR Bibles, THE Bible. We don't want you reading fiction now, do we?

More weasel words. "It appears", "it seems", "it is apparent", "history shows", etc. I hope the WT has its own sewer treatment plant, it puts out enough on its own to overwhelm NYC.

No one on earth understands Revelation. You printed 2 or 3 books on the topic. You had it studied at least four times since 1989. You still don't understand anything in it and neither do any JW's. Give it up. You want to save costs? Stop wasting paper, ink, and labor. Your publications (all fiction) are responsible for half the trees on this planet being wasted.

58

My Bethel experience

by new boy in

jw
friends

because of the length of this, it will be done in two parts.

part 1. i when to bethel march 21,1970. at the time you had to be a pioneer for two years to apply, by the time i left in 1974 they were calling people in who had never pioneered..........average stay was 5 months ( they had signed up for 4 years)..........the reason they left was......well, it was hell.. one of the reasons was, knorr hated bethelites, but he loved the gilead students and why?

because when they screwed up they were thousands of miles away!........just before i got there, they had kicked out over 60!

mcsemike

George Couch was surprised and outraged that someone claimed to get spiritually sick at Bethel?? Why, where else would that happen? There are many spiritually sick people at Bethel, and the people in charge wouldn't know spirituality if it hit them in the face.

This is just another example of cult thinking. People so sure of themselves that they cannot realize that THEY are the problem, not the world. From the stories I'm reading, I wouldn't work there for $50,000/year.

The remaining sincere people at Bethel: You have my sympathy.

58

My Bethel experience

by new boy in

jw
friends

because of the length of this, it will be done in two parts.

part 1. i when to bethel march 21,1970. at the time you had to be a pioneer for two years to apply, by the time i left in 1974 they were calling people in who had never pioneered..........average stay was 5 months ( they had signed up for 4 years)..........the reason they left was......well, it was hell.. one of the reasons was, knorr hated bethelites, but he loved the gilead students and why?

because when they screwed up they were thousands of miles away!........just before i got there, they had kicked out over 60!

mcsemike

As Anitar pointed out, I think we have our proof as to which way of life is more satisfying. Bethel can put out all the propaganda that they want to, they are letting people go and others are quitting. I remember even in the mid to late 1970's when Bethelites left and came home to the congregations, there was no joy in their eyes. They rarely talked about Bethel and seemed happy like they were getting out of prison. Now we know that's exactly the case.

What a crock of BS for the GB to hold Bethel and missionary service up to the world as so desirable. Why would any sane person want to live like that? Malaria infested areas, no sanitation, dirty water, etc. That's why people try to move to the USA, isn't it?

I think the dam is starting to crack. Once it does, there will be no stopping it. WT, your days are numbered. It's about time. You've had over 120 years of lying, slander, rape, snotty behavior and violating all the Bible rules. Your arrogance knows no bounds. When you fall off the ladder, don't expect anyone to catch you. You thumbed your nose at the world, now you can suffer the consequences.

58

My Bethel experience

by new boy in

jw
friends

because of the length of this, it will be done in two parts.

part 1. i when to bethel march 21,1970. at the time you had to be a pioneer for two years to apply, by the time i left in 1974 they were calling people in who had never pioneered..........average stay was 5 months ( they had signed up for 4 years)..........the reason they left was......well, it was hell.. one of the reasons was, knorr hated bethelites, but he loved the gilead students and why?

because when they screwed up they were thousands of miles away!........just before i got there, they had kicked out over 60!

mcsemike

Somehow it "rings all too true" as the movie said. Very believable. If the elders act like Nazis in the local congregations where the public and everyone else can see them, it's no surprise that some of the people at Bethel would be worse where they thought no one would report them or dare complain.

It sounds like a lunatic asylum. And the patients who were the most ill ran the place. Sounds like a good theme for a movie.

I went there once in 1977 for lunch and played the piano for some Bethelites in the lounge. It doesn't appear that I would have wanted to stay any longer. My deepest sympathies to any and all who were hurt by their experiences there.

4

Remaining Steadfast when Grandparents Shun

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

remaining steadfast when grandparents shun.

by anonymous.

a christian woman whom we will call joy tried to raise her son to love jehovah god.

mcsemike

Thanks for this post, Randy. I couldn't have said it better. Of course it reminded me of my wife leaving me and taking my now 21 year old daughter away. I'm sure she is being taught all the things you mentioned. It's sad to see it reduced to "selling books for the WT", but basically that's the reason. They cloak it with "not serving God" and other more noble phrases, but it's the same BS as before. The WT's motto is "OBEY US OR DIE". It won't change until THEY are killed for not obeying God. We all just have to wait for that day. I'd rather serve Satan than the God of the WT, and I believe in neither one.

The WT thinks it is cute with all the rules and control. One day, there will be one too many suicides, attempted killing of the WT member who has hurt the family, a rape, or something that will make the news and be the last straw. The WT is piling on sins higher and higher. Some day they will reach Heaven, and if there is a God, he will destroy the sewage-infested cult called the WT.

I fail to see how they can ignore Paul's letter on love or the prodigal son story. I will never understand their arrogance in claiming to be the only people (are they human?) on earth to have the right to explain the parables. After getting all of them wrong, I would think they would shut their stupid mouths for awhile and wait for things to cool down. But no, they just charge ahead and make bigger jackasses of themselves with each passing day.

I once posted that the religion with the highest rate of college graduates were Jews, at 49%. The religion with the lowest rate (NO SURPRISE HERE, FOLKS) is JW's, with just 4.9%. This is truly pathetic. Jews have ten times the graduate rate that the JW's have. Now we can begin to understand the academic dishonesty, failure to comprehend the "1984" logic they use (remember, they can't think) and the other nonsense they believe. When people go to college, they meet others who don't agree with them all the time. This teaches people to think, to consider the opinions of others, and to resolve "cognitive dissonance". (This is the condition of trying to believe something that you really don't think is correct, but you feel you have to because the WT said so.) College graduates have a healthy emotional state and can learn to "agree to disagree" with others. Not so the JW's. If you disagree with them, you are the DEVIL. Very childish, very stupid.

JW's also have up to 40 times the rate of mental illness that the population in general suffers from. Of course, it depends on the illness and how it's measured. But I know from my college study when I obtained my psychology degree that they have depression, persecution and martyr syndromes, and bipolar problems. There is also much schizophrenia among them. I know many psychologists who are NOT JW's and they treat far more than their fair share of JW's for these illnesses. Some of these therapists have multiple doctorates, so it's not a case of just my opinion. The WT cannot easily brush aside several therapists with two or three doctorates with "debates about words" and other stupid verses in order to make light of their work. I value the person with 8 years of college more than a dumb elder who barely finished high school. Sorry, WT, that's called "common sense". You might try using it one day.

I think if we look at the results (Jesus said wisdom was proven righteous by its works) we can see who is right. Are JW's truly happy? What kind of person could refuse to see their grandchild? A little baby, so cute and cuddly? What kind of parent (JW) could keep their new baby from the grandparents if they quit the WT? What about the poor child. How do you explain to him/her why grandma never comes over?

I hope you JW's are happy with yourselves. The smug condescension that you show today will be wails of agony when you are punished for your cruelty. Most of us will have to wait for God to right these wrongs. But some might get the chance sooner. I will show no mercy to those who destroyed my family. Remember, "an eye for an eye". You destroyed my family, I will destroy yours. I fear no God, no Devil, no death.

48

Jehovahs Witnesses Lose Court Battle to Suppress Freedom of Speech

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

http://www.silentlambs.org/denmarklawsuit.htm.

[see more information at the link above] .

jehovahs witnesses lose court battle to suppress freedom of speech.

mcsemike

Rooster made a good point after quoting the phrase about the WT "suing people into poverty". That sounds similar to "beating someone into submission", "hounding them into fleeing" or "harassing them to the death". None of these phrases sounds Christian to me. They certainly don't sound like anything Jesus would order his disciples to do concerning unbelievers. And we're not talking about people who just don't agree or accept "the Way". We are talking about victims of horrific crimes. I just can't envision Jesus and some apostles coming upon a rape victim or the man whom the Good Samaritan helped and when the victim said they were going to report it and/or asked Jesus and his group to help, Jesus reacted like the WT is doing and said if you go to the Roman soldiers, we'll have you thrown out of the temple.

The answer to Rooster's question is: The devil runs the WTS. If God approves of how the WT treats rape victims, he is mentally ill. Since no one here is going to buy that, then we have to assume he doesn't approve.

The author who wrote the book and criticized Muslems (Salmon Rushdie) had to go into hiding in order to save his life. It's pretty sad when the WTS employs the same tactics as Islamic terrorists. We have abuse victims taking back what they said and some hiding in fear. This is religion? This is love? This is evidence of the "worldwide loving brotherhood" that Jesus said would identify his true followers? It sounds more like the Nazis, the KKK, the KGB, and similar groups to me. Where is the "truth" that the WTS is always harping on?

One of the tragic ironies is that the WT claims much of this is being done so they can stop people from bringing reproach on Jehovah's name or organization, so they have to stop these "lies" and "slander". I submit that their tactics do more harm to them than anything else.

48

Jehovahs Witnesses Lose Court Battle to Suppress Freedom of Speech

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

http://www.silentlambs.org/denmarklawsuit.htm.

[see more information at the link above] .

jehovahs witnesses lose court battle to suppress freedom of speech.

mcsemike

How does the WT see it as "slander" when a newspaper publishes FACTS about their child abuse atrocities? Hasn't the WT published hundreds of articles over the past 120 years calling false religion "whores of Babylon", "liars", "false religion" and other names? Where does this double standard come from??

I don't recall any religions suing the WT because of what was printed in the magazines. How can the WT sue a newspaper over FACTS? Calling the Catholic Church a "whore of Babylon" is purely a religious interpretation. It cannot be considered a "fact", since it's one religion's definition versus another's. But a newspaper reporting simple facts that can be verified is actually a community obligation, and a social one. Why don't the various media sources have the right to print the truth? Isn't the "truth" the very thing that the WT is so hyped up about in the first place?

I find a dangerous trend taking place here. Maybe US courts don't want to rule concerning internal disciplinary affairs inside religions (such as Barbara Anderson's case) but certainly it is wrong for the WT (JR Brown or whomever) to imply or state that the DF'd people were morally corrupt and were DF'd for those reasons. It's one thing if they DF'd me for "apostasy" (which we all know is a crock in the first place), claiming I agreed to be subject to their organizational rules. It's far different to announce or allow the rumor mill to spread something around that I committed fornication or some other sin or crime that affects my good name in the community. THAT should NOT be allowed.

And please, for the last time, I admit that many did not join voluntarily nor were they treated properly once they were members. I am well aware of children "born" into this cult. My own daughter is lost to me forever because this very thing happened in my family. I was merely commenting on why the courts don't wish to touch certain aspects of the internal workings of the disciplinary arrangements in various religions. I do NOT approve of "captive members" who are later psychologically "raped" or abused by the WT's policies. I believe that people should be able to "resign" or DA themselves without ANY letter being read, nor ANY reason being given, and if rumors are spread, then I feel the person should be allowed to sue the WT for slander and/or libel. No other religion is so insecure, narrow-minded, or intolerant of those who "wise up" to the WT's Gestapo tactics and choose to leave.

Thank you.

48

Jehovahs Witnesses Lose Court Battle to Suppress Freedom of Speech

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

http://www.silentlambs.org/denmarklawsuit.htm.

[see more information at the link above] .

jehovahs witnesses lose court battle to suppress freedom of speech.

mcsemike

To Sammielee24:

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not agreeing with them at all. I was merely explaining the logic that the courts use when ruling that the WT has the "right" to it's own internal disciplinary system. I never said it was fair, Christian, loving, approved by God, or anything else. I've made it plain here how I feel about the WT. If you consider my posts on Silent Lambs, you will see that even more.

I don't even like the fact that children under 18 have to EVER go to a meeting. But not allowing parents to raise their children in the religion they choose for them opens up many Pandora Boxes. I don't have the solution. What if many thought that Jewish children "had it bad"? Many do, because some consider circumcision to be barbaric. And what if the man wished it hadn't been done to him when he's an adult? Do we ban circumcision through the courts?

Again, I'm not agreeing with the WT, I'm only pointing out that drawing a line is difficult. As a psychology major, I obviously am aware of the issues of how belonging to this cult affects normal children. I'm against baptism until a person is an adult. Why? If he gets baptized at 13 years old and later disagrees, he risks being DF'd, with all of the emotional and psychological damage that might ensue. But I doubt the Supreme Court will forbid baptisms in ANY religion until the person is 18 years old.

I know the children had no choice. That's another reason why blood should NEVER be kept from them. Maybe when they are 21 years old (and a transfusion was court-ordered), they will be glad because they are now alive and able to say "I QUIT" to the WT. No child should have to die for his parents' beliefs. I don't even like the idea of a parent dying for the PARENTS' beliefs. Children need parents and I don't like a mother or father throwing their life away because of the blood rules. But then someone could say that skydiving should be illegal for people with children because they have no right to risk their lives and leave children for the state to pay for. Where do you draw the line? Who draws it?

I mean this in all sincerity. I detest the WT. I am just pointing out what some courts have decided and why. Even adults can suffer because of being JW's. I lost my wife and daughter due to my stand against the WT's policies after my child was raped. I almost didn't make it to where I am now. I fully support the idea that the children must be protected. But short of outlawing the WT and taking children away from parents who inflict what many consider "emotional abuse", I don't know how all of this can be resolved.

My best to you.

77

Why Can You See Through the Watchtower While Others Cannot?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

why can you see through the watchtower while others cannot?

compared with the six million jehovahs witnesses worldwide the .

so-called apostates are comparatively much smaller.

mcsemike

Mary: Good analogy about marriage. I had a course or two on this in college. I'll post something soon to add to why the JW's stay.

I don't have exact figures, but someone once said that if you consider (only living people count) how many people are ex-JW's due to quitting or being DF'd, or even studying almost to the point of baptism, they might number the same or more than the current amount of publishers today. Which means that of all the people who "understand the truth" (LOL), more than half do NOT BELIEVE IT TO BE THE TRUTH. This is a good point. We "apostates" are not in so little a minority as the WT would have everyone think. We might outnumber the JW's all over. And like I said before, there is only one JW for every 1,000 people who are NOT JW's. That says volumes.

Please read the newsletter for this thread on Silent Lambs. If you want to see the WT's true colors, notice where they sue that they are being slandered (so to speak) yet threaten to "sue the victims into poverty". Adolf Hitler couldn't have done a more cruel and heartless job than the WTS. It's time that this religion is removed for good. All we have to do is spread the word. I think the dam has broken around the world. Let's just make sure the right people now drown.

48

Jehovahs Witnesses Lose Court Battle to Suppress Freedom of Speech

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

http://www.silentlambs.org/denmarklawsuit.htm.

[see more information at the link above] .

jehovahs witnesses lose court battle to suppress freedom of speech.

mcsemike

Mary: I agree that it is hypocritical that only the GB have true freedom of religion. If a country bans them, they scream bloody murder. Then if they get legalized, they tell the JW's what to think. Real cute. Their point is that you joined this religion on your own. I see what they mean to a degree, but I don't agree that slandering victims and those like Barbara Anderson should be allowed. Maybe they have the right to run the internal justice system as they see fit because no one made us join, but no one should have to suffer having their lives ruined.

One way to fight back is to tell everyone you know, go door to door and warn your neighbors. Email everyone you know. I will be posting a few newspaper people's names soon that will no doubt want to do an article on this. This should help TSOF as well. The letter is on Silent Lambs and when I read that the WT planned to "sue victims into poverty", I saw red. It's time for a showdown and they will get one this year.

To WT lurkers: You won't sue me "into poverty". I may not live long enough to see it, but you WILL someday die off as a religion. The issue is whether or not the God who owns the universe likes to see kids raped or not. You obviously think he does. The rest of the world (you know, the sane people) don't agree with your cult's viewpoints.

There are one thousand non-JW's to every one JW on this planet. We have more people, more money, more everything. I saved TSOF's resignation letter. I will show it to anyone I know who is considering becoming a JW. Information and truth can defeat the WT. All we have to do is use it. My best to all.