Liberty

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Posts by Liberty

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  61

  Signing Off on "The NET THANG"

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would just like to thank everyone for the excellent posts that have appeared here on this site.

  i esp would like to thank simon for making this possible.

  i sincerely believe that the "net thang" will continue to play a role in helping jw who are sincerely searching for a confirmation that all their doubts and wondering over the years was not the result of them being spiritually weak.

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  Liberty

  JT,

  I have really appreciated your posts!

  Thanks
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  6

  KILLER JWs NOT LIKELY BUT.............

  by Liberty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i find it highly unlikely that the watchtower society would ever demand that their followers start armageddon by killing their/god's "enemies".

  such a move would quickly spell the death of the jw movement as they are such a tiny minority of the general population and such crazed behaviour would be met with swift and complete irradication of the society by even the most tolerant governments.

  the cowards who run the society would never risk such an assured loss of comfort, position, and money since any accomplishment gained from this desparate(irrational)action would be very short-lived.

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  Liberty

  Hi SYN,

  I agree that the G.B. are guilty of many deaths and much suffering among the R&F JWs around the World but their responsibility for this is morally but, unfortunately, not legally wrong. They hide behind the right of freedom of religion in order to escape their guilt for the "voluntary" suicides, tortures, and imprisonments of their deluded followers due to their flipflopping and extra-biblical rules.

  Luckily they haven't tried to force these things on non-JWs yet so they can appear reasonable to most tolerant governments. This is no accident. By not appearing to be as crazy as they really are these Watchtower cult leaders can continue their comfortable lives. My point wasn't that they don't have the power to get some JWs to kill, I think they do, but rather that they won't use this power because of the consequences this would bring upon them. They are very willing to let the R&F JWs suffer in some foriegn country for the propoganda benifits (Malawi) but if they must face any negative results for themselves at Headquarters (Mexico) they want no part of it.
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  6

  KILLER JWs NOT LIKELY BUT.............

  by Liberty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i find it highly unlikely that the watchtower society would ever demand that their followers start armageddon by killing their/god's "enemies".

  such a move would quickly spell the death of the jw movement as they are such a tiny minority of the general population and such crazed behaviour would be met with swift and complete irradication of the society by even the most tolerant governments.

  the cowards who run the society would never risk such an assured loss of comfort, position, and money since any accomplishment gained from this desparate(irrational)action would be very short-lived.

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  Liberty

  I find it highly unlikely that the Watchtower Society would ever demand that their followers start Armageddon by killing their/God's "enemies". Such a move would quickly spell the death of the JW movement as they are such a tiny minority of the general population and such crazed behaviour would be met with swift and complete irradication of the Society by even the most tolerant governments. The cowards who run the Society would never risk such an assured loss of comfort, position, and money since any accomplishment gained from this desparate(irrational)action would be very short-lived.

  From the way the Society has always invested in the future, as if they believed that the big "A" was infinitely postponed, I would say with certainty that they would never concieve of such a plan since they have proven by every action that they are faithless hypocrits more akin to saavy business men than faith-crazed fanatics like Jim Jones or David Koresh. I hate the Watchtower leadership all the more for their fake faith in Armageddon while they pushed the rest of us into believing in its reality along with the individual sacrifices this entailed. At least Koresh and Jones died with their followers for their beliefs no matter how crazy we might think them. The Watchtower leadership has never shown this kind of conviction or self sacrifice if it trickeled down to them.

  I bring all this up however, to ask if others might remember some Watchtower publications which did have some disturbing articles arguing that JWs were NOT pacifists as some believed due to our stand on military service but that we would, in fact, be willing to take up arms at a moments notice if Jehovah asked us to? This was years ago and I suspect these were written by Fred Franz but I remember these points being discussed seriously in the congregation and I was wondering if anyone else remembered this or if they had the direct quotes? I was reminded of this by the post about JWs killing apostates and was curious about the accuracy of my memory and to get my 2 cents in on the whole "killer JW" theme.
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  11

  DO EVEN DIE HARD JWs REALLY THINK THE END IS NEAR

  by Liberty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after reading a couple of posts about the growing apathy among the r&f jws today i was reminded of the years following 1975 when the dropout rate was growing rapidly and the "faithful" die hards took it as a sign that the "end" was really really near since the winnowing process was removing so much chaff.

  keep in mind that this was over 25 years ago.

  it's been mentioned before but it is worth repeating that, no matter what is happening, religious fanatics(jws) always see it as a sign from god.

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  Liberty

  Hi Elsewhere,

  I understand this ability. I remember being able to do it, sometimes anyway, but it really took a toll on me. I really reached a point where I couldn't take it anymore. How can they keep it up for so long though? In "1984" Orwell talked about the abilty to do this kind of thing in order to avoid the Party's punishments. Brainwashing is a strange thing. I really pitty them.
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  11

  DO EVEN DIE HARD JWs REALLY THINK THE END IS NEAR

  by Liberty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after reading a couple of posts about the growing apathy among the r&f jws today i was reminded of the years following 1975 when the dropout rate was growing rapidly and the "faithful" die hards took it as a sign that the "end" was really really near since the winnowing process was removing so much chaff.

  keep in mind that this was over 25 years ago.

  it's been mentioned before but it is worth repeating that, no matter what is happening, religious fanatics(jws) always see it as a sign from god.

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  Liberty

  After reading a couple of posts about the growing apathy among the R&F JWs today I was reminded of the years following 1975 when the dropout rate was growing rapidly and the "faithful" die hards took it as a sign that the "End" was really really near since the winnowing process was removing so much chaff. Keep in mind that this was over 25 years ago. It's been mentioned before but it is worth repeating that, NO matter what is happening, religious fanatics(JWs) always see it as a sign from God. When the growth rate is fast it's a sure sign of old Jehover's blessing before His Day of Wrath and if the numbers are falling it's proof positive that Jehover is sifting out all the "false" Christians just before His Big "A" bird feast party.

  Today, after soooo many false alarms, I'm even wondering if the die hards still say these types of things or if they just are finally worn down past the point of caring/believing that Armageddon is really just around the corner? I would guess that even the most dim-witted die hard JWs are having a difficult time keeping up the energy needed to sustain the "mental gymnastics" for such an unsupported premise as "imminent destruction" after years of disappointment. I'm guessing the general apathy and poor results of field service reflect this. All evidence points to the World going on just as it has for billions of years.... but then again that's always the best time for God to strike, when we least suspect it. Baam! Like a thief in the night!... Once again, they can have it both ways: no evidence IS evidence, or "all the signs are fulfilled so we can clearly see that it must be near the End". This nutty back and forth has got to eventually take its toll on even the most "faithful" Witness. I've been out for years so I was hoping someone who is still in or has just left might fill us in on the general mood among your everyday JW in 2002.
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  15

  MORE ON 1975, FOR MUSKY

  by Liberty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  along with musky's 1975 post i've just seen another so i wanted to try and reach musky again and reach others who wonder about the reality of the society's 1975 speculations.

  af and others have done an excellent job documenting what was actually said by the watchtower society through their own official publications and spokesmen.

  as a person who was actually there in those heady times of the late 60's and early 70's these official documents confirm what my memory tells me i knew all along, that of course the society actively promoted 1975 as a "marked date" or a date of "great significance" at the very least.

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  Liberty

  I remember the 1973 Conventions! Many of the attendies said it would be the last one... in this "Wicked Old System" anyway. I'm glad I'll be destroyed in the big "A" if Jehover makes the survivors keep having these painfully boring conventions for eternity. Hell is looking better and better!
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  23

  Smoking and apostates

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mrmoe got me thinking... is it just me, or does a disproportionate number of apostates smoke?.

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  "as every one knows, there are mistakes in the bible" - the watchtower, april 15, 1928, p. 126 .

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  Liberty

  I left the Watchtower, am an Atheist, and have never even wanted to smoke. That smell makes me ill.
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  26

  Am I an "apostate"?

  by 4christ in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was wondering if i am considered one by the wt defintion.

  i have never been a jw in my life but i disagree with their doctrine.

  are all the "worldies" considered "apostates" or just the ex jws?

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  Liberty

  They run 4christ because they are ill-equipped to handle a knowledgable foe like yourself. They are after people who know nothing of them or the Bible so that they can quickly boondogel them into joining this wackey cult. You are too great a challenge. Their faith is so weak that they will not allow themselves to be confronted with anything that would risk sending them over the edge. That is why they are forbidden to read "Apostate" material, talk to Ex-JWs, or visit this site. The Watchtower Society's confidence in their own brainwashing is so low that they can't risk any fair debate format. They must always have the upper hand or they are uninterested in responding to a challenge.
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  15

  MORE ON 1975, FOR MUSKY

  by Liberty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  along with musky's 1975 post i've just seen another so i wanted to try and reach musky again and reach others who wonder about the reality of the society's 1975 speculations.

  af and others have done an excellent job documenting what was actually said by the watchtower society through their own official publications and spokesmen.

  as a person who was actually there in those heady times of the late 60's and early 70's these official documents confirm what my memory tells me i knew all along, that of course the society actively promoted 1975 as a "marked date" or a date of "great significance" at the very least.

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  Liberty

  Thanks AF!,

  I've really appreciated all your research, fine posts, and your web page.
• 
  15

  MORE ON 1975, FOR MUSKY

  by Liberty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  along with musky's 1975 post i've just seen another so i wanted to try and reach musky again and reach others who wonder about the reality of the society's 1975 speculations.

  af and others have done an excellent job documenting what was actually said by the watchtower society through their own official publications and spokesmen.

  as a person who was actually there in those heady times of the late 60's and early 70's these official documents confirm what my memory tells me i knew all along, that of course the society actively promoted 1975 as a "marked date" or a date of "great significance" at the very least.

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  Liberty

  As more evidence of the changing attitudes after '75 I can remember that the young hot-shot Elders who were assigned in the late 70's started having kids, buying houses, and starting companies. I saw this as evidence that they no longer took "the End is near" crap as seriously anymore either. The Society must have approved since these were given position and more responsability.

  Anyone chasing this hard after "the things of the World" before '75 would have been considered spiritually weak and been passed over or chastized for their lack of faith, yet soon after '75 this behaviour was just considered "taking care of our own families' needs". These A-hole Elders really chapped me because they still preached to the rest of us about the nearness of the End and warned of being tied up with Worldly things but blantently lived their lives like they knew this "Wicked Old System" was going on into infinity. They had comfortable lives but the rank & file were still supposed to tow the line cause the big "A" was still right around the corner. These same bastards later sent their kids to college while they had councelled my generation not to go because the End was so near. What a bunch of hypocrites.