Posts by saltyoldlady

hello all.... some of you have been following our story from the beginning - and even those of you who haven't should be able to relate to my quandary.... last week my 14 year old son told me he no longer wants to be a jw.

we laboured over telling his jw dad all week.

well, on friday night he finally came clean.. but in a bizarre and unexpected twist, after having sex with his girlfriend for the very first time - in his father's home that very afternoon.

saltyoldlady

My grandchildren tell me this is not at all uncommon. Kids are having sex in grade school even. But it breaks the heart of any parent!

Two good things to consider - one the kid has been honest and upfront with you. That is a real plus. He doesn't want to put on a facade at the KH - or represent himself as what he is not. There is a whole lot of commendation for his sincerity and truthfulness before God. And two - he feels confident enough of your love to tell you straight out what is going on. That is a grand tribute to your "unconditional" love - it is impossible to work with a liar. So your child has HOPE.

My suggestions are to try very hard to have a heart to heart about what he may think God's views are of the situation. Not to condemn - to get him to reason for himself. Kids at 14 are not dumb - they know how to put themselves in someone else's shoes and imagine what it must be like - ask him what he could do to best please God - or even if he wants to please God. Emphasize God does not force anyone to behave in a specific way - he has given each of us freedom - but he does desire our best. He does give us counsel for our protection. I don't know just how to pull this off without making it look like a "shame on you session" - that you don't want at any cost. But there has to be some way to get him thinking about his loving heavenly father and about why God gives us advice not to do things that look like fun - and feel good at the time. Talking about the tree in the Garden of Eden - how it was desirable to look upon and turns out it even tasted good as fruit and she didn't die "on the spot." Get him to tell you how he feels about that story - what he thinks Eve could have done differently - was God really withholding something good from her? Etc. Etc. He will be sharp enough to make the application without the subject even being mentioned. But get him thinking and focusing on God - that is the only thing that will ever change the behavior that I can imagine.

What would have happened had Eve run back to Adam and said "You know what the snake said to me today? Adam, that tree is so pretty. Come on let's just look at it!" The thought I want to implant in his mind is it might have been a good thing to come and talk with you first about his desire. You wouldn't have killed him for having the desire. You would have explained that is the way we are made. Yes - it is a natural thing built into us. But now let's look at the long range of things - is there any advantage of delaying this activity? Etc. Etc. Get him to tell you how he feels - more than you giving the advice. If you can get him to talk it out - there is something about saying things out loud to another human being that makes us think better. He may come to some important realizations all on his own without you ever having had to "tell him so!" Somehow mom and dad just telling us stuff doesn't reach the heart. You have to get him to think for himself - questions, questions, questions. Isn't there a proverb that talks about pulling water out of a deep well? That's what couseling a child is like.

Maybe talking to him about your own mistakes and how they have turned out - that is something very real he can relate to - everything isn't all bad ever - but there is always a better way to have done things and how does he think you could have done things better. Be prepared to bite your tongue on this because he'll probably tell you things that you don't want to hear but he will make the application also to himself in so doing.

And never stop praying for your children no matter what they do! No matter how incorrigible they seem! God doesn't give up on us and He is our example.

17

Time demands of the Jehovah's Witness religion compared with other religions?

by stapler99 in

jw
friends

i've been wondering how other religions, such as other christian denominations, would compare to the jw's in their time demands.. .

i'll lay out the approximate hours per week below.

(i know some of the meeting lengths have changed in recent years, and the bookstudy has been abolished.

saltyoldlady

I was a member of various Protestant churches during my first 40 years of life - well forget the first 5 or 6. My parents were both children of preachers - known as "preacher's kids" so we had a rather serious spiritual bent - BUT what it actually resulted in re time commitments were one meeting a week - Sundays - go to Sunday School first, then Church afterward - about 2 hours worth or less actually cause the Sunday sermons are rarely more than 20 to 30 minutes in length - then tack on the choir, the music prelude on the organ, some hymns and a couple group prayers - maybe reading a short liturgy of some sort. Sunday School also rarely took up a full hour but just for the sake of rounding things off we were probably at the Church Bldg for 2 hours a week.

In my teens I participated in a youth group that met on Sunday eve's - for about hour and a half - the half part was devotional in nature - the hour was more social and fun type stuff, game playing, roller skating in the church basement, playing ping pong, etc. My father in his later years attended a men's group once a week - don't think my mother ever got involved in any of the groups. She had had enough of that growing up as a Pastor's daughter to suit her for a lifetime.

Study for Sunday School - didn't involve much - maybe a hurried half hour per week or if feeling especially "spiritual minded" - lol - it would get a whole hour's worth of my time. When I taught Sunday School as an adult it was a different matter - I devoted great chunks of time to the lesson in preparation and that is where I got most of my Bible knowledge back then - also leading a youth group involved a 2 hours prep time per week for my hubby and I. But in total it never came to anything like the time requirements the WTS put upon us - not even close. I remember reading in an old Life Magazine way back in the 50's or 60's that WTS adherents spent an average of 30 hours per week in support of their religion and thinking to myself - those people must be amazing!

Later I was to learn just how amazing - and it wasn't amazingly good or spiritual - but the time expenditure required was indeed true.

31

How the Watchtower corporation really works (beginning to end)

by Terry in

jw
friends

in 1925, judge rutherford penned an article of extreme controversy titled the birth of the nation.. the editorial committee (russell had created) would not approve it.. .

ruthford moved swiftly to remove them!

he then hid his massacre cleverly:.

saltyoldlady

Wow - what an experience! Dreadful! And I suspect there are many many more very similar out there. It's just not what we call "Christian Love" -

66

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

by Quendi in

i know this has been discussed before, but i want to reopen the topic.

i am currently reading ray franz's memoir crisis of conscience and ran across this footnote with respect to the new world translation of the holy scriptures:.

"the new world translation bears no translator's name and is presented as the anonymous work of the "new world translation committee.

saltyoldlady

Substitute the word "prepostion" for proposition above. Thanks.

66

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

by Quendi in

i know this has been discussed before, but i want to reopen the topic.

i am currently reading ray franz's memoir crisis of conscience and ran across this footnote with respect to the new world translation of the holy scriptures:.

"the new world translation bears no translator's name and is presented as the anonymous work of the "new world translation committee.

saltyoldlady

I just LOST my whole contribution in one fell swoop - FRUSTRATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too have the same interests and thoughts as you have expressed above. While I do not come even close to qualifying as a Bible scholar I have begun doing a great deal of side by side comparisons of various translations and it is yielding spiritual fruit for me. I too love the NWT for the same reasons as you have expressed - the restoration of the Divine Name, and its refreshing modern-day terminology. Often the expressions in the Pauline epistles especially are particularly perceptive and well-worded in comparison to others.

However I am also discovering passages that appear preferable in other translations and am making a collection of these. Examining the nuances of grammar, propositions chosen, etc. reveals an amazing variety of meanings for the translator and contemplating the choices made is most fascinating. Careful analytical evaluation of the message being conveyed provides many clues to what may be the correct rendering. It is as much fun as any puzzle I have ever worked upon. And BIAS of the translators really does appear - sometimes rather blatantly.

Just to give a short quick example - in my current Bible study class we covered John Chapter 17 this past week. In my 8 translations of the New Testament side by side produced by Tyndale the fact that the word "name" had been removed in half of them from verses 6 and 11 by 4 translations or versions was fascinating. One has to ask the question - Why? Either the word "name" was there or it wasn't. What is going on here? And then an interesting point came up in the class discussion that some such as the NWT used the phrase "on account of your own name" where others said "by the power of your name" - the shades of meaning and significance are fascinating to explore. In some cases I simply like to incorporate both into my comprehension of the subject. In other cases I find myself discarding NWT wording.

Am sure others must have also made such collections of both the strong (to be preferred) and the questionable passages in the NWT. Looking forward to finding these and examining them myself. Will be checking this thread frequently in the future for what else we can learn.

37

K.I.S.S. Keep it simple (for the) STUPID! Considering 1914 anew

by Terry in

have you ever seen a stop sign?.

what if it were a "decelerate until stationary!

"sign, instead?.

saltyoldlady

Just to have some fun here AND still keeping it simple - ever so simple! If WTS lopped off 100 years from the beginning of Br Russell's calculations for 1914 - changed the beginning from 4126 to 4026 shouldn't EVERYTHING from then on be moved up 100 years - so that means 1914 is NOW 2014 guys - NUUUU Light. I'm all lit up. lol.

24

This stopped me in my tracks. Sad but inspiring, please read...

by unshackled in

jw
friends

this is sad but also quite inspiring...thought i'd share it.. .

a gentleman named derek miller passed away yesterday from cancer.

he was loved and admired by many in the vancouver area (and beyond).

saltyoldlady

Very beautifully done and special. Thank you for sharing. Makes a person contemplate the value of every single moment.

36

Miracles For Sale

by cofty in

new derren brown documentary this evening on channel 4 (uk) 9-10:30pm.

his insights into human psychology is astonishing, some of his previous docs have been jaw-dropping.. "the entertainer investigates the reality behind america's faith-healing phenomenon, and chooses an unsuspecting member of the british public who is prepared to adopt the guise of a pastor.

the selected person then tries to perform healing `miracles' in texas after six months of learning, in an experiment to see whether he will be accepted".

saltyoldlady

Watched the whole set - Wow - thank you! That was quite an education for me.