K.I.S.S. Keep it simple (for the) STUPID! Considering 1914 anew

by Terry 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry

    Have you ever seen a STOP sign?

    Sure you have.

    What if it were a "Decelerate until stationary!" sign, instead?

    I think you know already.

    Not as pithy and .....ridiculous conflation of meaning!

    If you have an extremely important bit of information to communicate you use impactful precision, do you not?

    You know those office signs? KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!

    Does the Watchtower Society keep it simple for the stupid?

    Do they have a very important set of facts to get across or not?

    END TIMES prophecy is the foundation of Jehovah's Witness theology.

    They either know what they are talking about or they are hopelessly confused.

    If they know what they are talking about they should be able to KEEP IT SIMPLE.

    Watchtower Chronology suffers from weak logical links. After all, they start with an unproven premise and begin linking and linking and linking and suddenly they produce the rabbit out of the hat. 1914 is the rabbit
    WEAKEST LINKS logically in the Watchtower Society's chronology of end times.

    In Daniel's chapter four prophecy he uses the expression: "seven times". This expression is applied to Nebuchadnezzer. This king of Babylonia would become a werewolf (lycanthrope) for seven years.

    Watchtower application:

    1.There is a latter day application to the prophecy in Daniel.

    2.The application points to the destruction of Jerusalem.

    3.That event happened in 607 B.C.E.

    4.Those Gentile Times end in 1914 C.E.

    5.Seven Times means seven years of 360 days each.
    And don't forget that although in point 5 the Seven Times means seven years of 360 days each, in point 8 the WTS uses 365.2422 days per year.

    If the Gentile times began in 607 BC then why did Jesus say: "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near... and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

    So why link the start to 607 BC when, according to Jesus' words above, it is more logical to start at 70 AD?
    6.A "day for a year" applies to these 360 days.

    7. Seven times 360=2,520 days for Nebuchadnezzer's werewolf mania.

    8.A day for a year in the latter day fulfillment gives us 2,500 years for Gentile domination

    (Never explain Watchtower chronology late at night after two glasses of wine!)

    Weak link: The Daniel account says the tree represents Nebuchadnezzar.

    Weak link: Nowhere in the account does it mention the words "in the final part of the days .."
    Times don't mean times, but years.
    Years don't mean years, but days.
    Days don't mean days either, but years.
    Calculations using 360 days from an ancient calendar = a prophetic date in a modern 365 day calendar.
    A 360 day year?
    Throughout human history the year has been 365 and a quater days
    What has differed is the MEANS of calculation of how long a year was.

    In times past when the length of a true year was unknown different nations had different lengths of years and leap years were incerted every now and then according to how far behind the true year they were falling.

    The Baylonians at some points in history used a 360 day year but used leap years of longer length as well to make up time when they fell behind.
    Why doesn't the Bible writer ("Daniel") simply say what he means? It has the makings of an amateur's attempt to plot a murder mystery with "clues" everywhere.

    The Creation "days", we are told, are not literal days at all. But, the scripture talks about an "evening and a morning" over and over. The retreat into REDEFINITION of simple everyday words smacks of desperation.

    Daniel's SEVEN TIMES means what, exactly? Why pose the prophecy as a multiplication problem? In Hebrew, Greek it was positively difficult backbreaking work to multiply large numbers--because.......why?

    Because they HAD NO NUMBERS! The letters of their alphabet did double-duty for numbers.

    Imagine if we had to do that in English! A=1, B=2, C=3 etc. Could you even balance your checkbook? (Can you anyway? :)

    Writing a spooky prophecy and making the whole business seem "divine" must have provoked the wording and the folderol. Hocus-Pocus and little else!

    How would the prophecy be any different if Daniel simply said, "Nebuchadnezzer is going to be a werewolf for seven years" ?

    Why interpret the years as days? Why force the days to be multiplied?

    Why view this as a minor fulfillment and apply it to Messianic computations?

    If it isn't given to man to understand God's timetable; it seem there are a lot of timetable redherring clues being planted!

    Stuff and nonsense, I say!

    The JW interpretation, the "greater" fulfillment of the "prophecy" actually begins before the prophecy has even been given.
    The JW's believe the greater fulfillment of the Dream of the Tree began in 607 BC when Jehovah allowed the "tree" of Davidic kingship to be cut down.

    607 BC was well before Nebuchadnezzar had even had the dream and well before Belteshazzar had interpreted it.
    Russell taught the "last days" began in 1799 and the WTS teaches that they began in 1914, but BOTH Russell and today's WTS teach that the Times of the Gentiles ended in 1914, based upon Daniel's prophecy.

    What's the problem with that? The problem is that Russell put forth a teaching in 1876 (that is still taught today), that in effect, "unsealed" the book of Daniel. Yet, the author of Daniel said that book could not be unsealed until the "time of the end," which began a full 38 years AFTER Russell unsealed the werewolf "prophecy."

    This means that IF Russell unsealed Daniel 38 years before the book COULD be unsealed, then the statement in Daniel about its unsealing is a lie.

    Therefore in the JW interpretation, the prophetic fulfillment actually starts before the prophecy is given.
    Can somebody out there tell us when a day=day?

    when a day=1 year ?

    when a day = 1000 years ?

    and the diffrence of when a day = 7000 years?
    The ONLY link the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation has to 1914 is their claim that Charles Russell predicted the right events for the right date.

  • thetrueone

    What one real thing did they ever exclusively predict that actually happened?

    How about selling alot of books and magazines with their prophetic divinely inspired bullshit.

    Unfortunately people who are involved with this religion, really think they are in direct connection to God and his son,

    a part of his earthly arrangement if you will, when in reality they are directly connected to the Watchtower Publishing company

    and its will and purpose.

  • Terry

    Why was Daniel speaking in mystery novel clues instead of just saying the important things as facts?

    Why has the Watchtower Society abandoned the "lesser fulfillment" "greater fulfillment" style of interpreting prophecy while at the same time keeping

    the interpretation they got from using it in the first place?

    Why are the GB able to get away with riding roughshod over the "generations" promise that Millions Now Living Will Never Die, but, they

    can't touch the literal dependance on a chronology which requires the destruction of Jerusalem AT ODDS with actual history?


  • doubtful

    Great post Terry. But don't dwell on the lunacy too much. It's bad for your health. How anybody can buy the 1914 doctrine after researching its origin and foundation is beyond me. Yet, most JWs have NEVER investigated it or questioned it at all! The very, very few who do (like us here on this board) either A) leave, or B) Bury their head up their ass even farther until the base of their neck reaches their esophagus.

  • Mary

    Terry, I hit the paydirt! I remember years ago during one of the WT studies, how they literally changed what the bible said in order to try and fit their bullshit idea that this "trampling" had occurred centuries earlier. After searching and searching, I finally found it. The added the words "continue to" to the scripture:

    "...While giving his sign, Jesus spoke of the "seven times," calling them "the appointed times of the nations." He said: "Jerusalem will [continue to] be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." (Luke 21:24)----November 1, 1986 Watchtower pp 5-6, A Dream Reveals How Late It Is

    We had a huge discussion on here with that idiot 'Scholar' a couple of years ago. I pointed out that it really made no difference if Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE or 587 BCE because the prophecy in Daniel specifically states that the "7 times" was talking about the 7 years that Nebuchadnezzar lived like an animal. There was absolutely nothing there to link it to the destruction of Jerusalem the second time around.

    Of course, with an entire religion riding on this doctrine, the GB and their cronies will pull out all stops to try to support their stupidity. They couldn't care less if it's 'at odds with history', because the only thing they care about is their own power.

  • Terry

    Mary exclaimed:

    Terry, I hit the paydirt! I remember years ago during one of the WT studies, how they literally changed what the bible said in order to try and fit their bullshit idea that this "trampling" had occurred centuries earlier. After searching and searching, I finally found it. The added the words "continue to" to the scripture:

    Woo, that's a nice catch, Mary.

    I'd like to compile a simple list of such "obvious" trickery when it comes to Watcthower malfeasance.

    If I only had the patience!!

  • jeckle

    Yes terry I liked that. You said it better than I could've. What gets me is a lot of elders I knew thought they were/or think they are really smart, but still don't see or question this at all. Frankly I always have questioned these mathematical gymnastics. These are the threads I come here for. I learn from this stuff

  • thetrueone

    The WTS. right from Russell's day had the pressing initiative to make their proclamations factual and viable.

    Throw in a mix of Pyramidology, a little bit of biblical numerology, oversell an incalculable date, as 1975 was and

    thats all they perceived was needed to sell their products maintain their procured members and maintain their power.

    They have actually created and designed an insurance policy for themselves and that is New Light, to cover

    over old proclaiming bullshit, Old Light, with intact they cant lose and they can retain whatever public support they've acquired.

    Its securing and quite supportive to create your own rules justifiable only to yourself, without some other element

    governing over what you are doing, as you can see...... its the ultimate power....almost God like

  • JustHuman14

    You can have endeless combinations of "End's of Time Prophecy" by jumping from one scripture to another, from the Old Testament to the New!!! And imagine WT does not accept the traditional version of the Bible(79 Books) with another 10 books in the Old Testament, so I can guess how many combinations they could come up...

    So since the WT is so focus with types and anti-types, first fullfilment and second, etc, etc. For them they just cannot have one prophecy and finished, like the prophecy of Daniel. They always come up with endless prophecies just to support their authority over 7,000,000 Jw's.

  • losthobbit

    April 21st, 2011 was Judgment day, according to the TV series, "Sarah Connor Chronicles".


    Dammit! I missed Judgement day again... was out surfing.

    Of course when the next season comes out they'll say it happened invisibly... nah, too many intelligent people out there.

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