Posts by aqwsed12345

  • heyfea
    17

    Any explanation from WT about the missing tribe in Rev. chap. 7?

    by heyfea in
    1. watchtower
    2. bible

    i don't think i ever heard a reference from the wt about the fact that in chapter 7 of revelation, one of the tribes of israel, dan, is missing and replaced with the tribe of manasseh, who's joseph's son (jacob adopted joseph's son as his own).. since the wt insists that the 144,000 "jews" are not literal jews, then why jesus didn't simply mention all the original tribe names in revelation?

    it really wouldn't have made a difference, right?.

    ah, but what if these 144,000 jews, are really jews?

    1. aqwsed12345
    2. sabastious
    3. AGuest
  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345
  • http://www.apocalipsis.org/144000.htm
  • http://www.apocalipsis.org/rev7.htm
  • http://www.apocalipsis.org/Rev-I-Tape-4.htm
  • http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/seeds-of-doubt-for-jehovahs-witnesses-the-144000/
  • http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
  • http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/144000.php & http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/great-crowd-other-sheep.php
  • http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/1144000andmemorial.html
  • http://ia700108.us.archive.org/15/items/IsYourHopeBible-based/Is_Your_Hope_Bible...
  • http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/do-the-old-testament-saints-receive-a-...
  • heyfea
    17

    Any explanation from WT about the missing tribe in Rev. chap. 7?

    by heyfea in
    1. watchtower
    2. bible

    i don't think i ever heard a reference from the wt about the fact that in chapter 7 of revelation, one of the tribes of israel, dan, is missing and replaced with the tribe of manasseh, who's joseph's son (jacob adopted joseph's son as his own).. since the wt insists that the 144,000 "jews" are not literal jews, then why jesus didn't simply mention all the original tribe names in revelation?

    it really wouldn't have made a difference, right?.

    ah, but what if these 144,000 jews, are really jews?

    1. aqwsed12345
    2. sabastious
    3. AGuest
  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    All Christian believers must be born again, or regenerated (Jn 3:3-6, 1 Jn 5:1; cf. Rom 8:8, 2 Cor 5:17). Most Christians believe this occurs during regenerative baptism; others make it a strictly spiritual experience of conversion, but all agree that it is absolutely necessary for every believer. The notion that Jesus Christ needed to be born again is blasphemous, and nowhere found in Scripture. Only sinners are in need of regeneration and a Savior, and since Jesus is the sinless Savior, it is ludicrous to speak of His being born again.

    The doctrine of 144,000 has been arbitrarily developed from a few verses in Revelation, interpreted in a highly curious way. For the 144,000 are clearly Jews from the twelve tribes of Israel, which is explicitly stated in Rev 7:4-8. Rev 14:4 also informs us that the 144,000 are all unmarried virgin men! Scripture also teaches that there will be only one flock, not two (Jn 10:16), and that heaven and the New Earth will be one and the same (Rev 21:2,23-24, 22:3). As for the "great crowd," the Bible states that they are before God's throne in heaven (Rev 7:9; cf. 14:1-3). Rev 7:15 tells us that they serve God "in his temple" in heaven (see Rev 11:19, 14:17), and Rev 7:16 adds that "neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat." This also indicates that they are in heaven, according to Rev 21:23 and 22:5.

    No one can be saved apart from Jesus' mediatorial, redemptive, and atoning work on the Cross (1 Tim 2:4-5, Jn 3:15-18, Rom 3:10,20-28, 4:3-8,25, 5:1-2,18-19, 11:6, Phil 3:9, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-10,Titus 3:4-7). If salvation were possible apart from the unmerited work of Jesus Christ on our behalf, then He didn't have to come to earth and die for us at all. He is no Savior at all if He only saves 144,000.

    Moreover, there is no indication whatsoever in the communion passages (e.g., 1 Cor 11:23-24, Lk 22:14-20) that the Lord's Supper, or Eucharist, was to be observed by a small "elite" group only. It is for all Christians. This is why the early Christians met (Acts 2:46: "breaking bread"). Jesus said:

    . . . Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. (John 8:53)

    Whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 8:54)

    So how is it possible to attain eternal life even on the earth, without partaking of the Body and Blood of the Lord? Jesus says it is not possible. According to The Watchtower of 1 January 1995 (p. 15), only 8,617 (remaining from the 144,000) partook of communion in the yearly service of 1994.

    Lastly, the idea that the Old Testament saints will not go to heaven is contradicted by Matthew 8:11 (the NWT adds an "s" to "heaven" in order to undercut the clarity of this verse), Hebrews 11:4-11,16 and Psalms 73:24. Matthew 5:12 teaches that all believers will go to heaven. It is expressly stated in Scripture that Elijah "went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (2 Kings 2:1,11).